Brazilian Jiu Jitsu: Royce Gracie vs. Kung Fu master

[nairb49]

Very very interesting thread. Definitely a long-standing argument, which I personally don't believe has a definitive answer, based on the exact factors which are being brought up, cross-training etc. I completely agree with Tokyo Slim, having studied a few martial arts for years, namely WTF and Wing Chun, the absolute most valuable thing I've learned towards Real World situations is how to avoid them. "fighting without fighting" If unavoidable, again I agree with Tokyo, in that surprise/psychological etc etc is the most useful. Although I would venture to wager that Military Martial Arts would fare quite well. I'm no expert by any means, but from what I gather its similar to La Guy's depiction of self-defense classes-bare essentials and minimalist, but lethal. edit-kind of like that bas video -hilarious! Looks like it'll fare well in S/S'06

(couldn't resist)

 

[mizanation]

yeah, bas is awesome. he's also a big believer in krav maga and has done seminars together with KM people.

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by mizanation

yeah, bas is awesome. he's also a big believer in krav maga and has done seminars together with KM people.

I would not like*to be on the receiving end of any of Bas's "bams". They would all be rather painful. On the other hand, when you are that big and well conditioned, and just plain aggressive to boot, I doubt that you are going to lose too many "streetfights" unless you are a complete idiot.

 

[mizanation]

LA Guy, very good point.

Bas has never been known as a technical martial artist. if you ever watch his instructionals on ground fighting, it's somewhat rudimentary stuff. a lot of the stuff are power techniques and his execution is never all that slick. BUT, his conditioning is legendary and his training regimen is insane.

he was a very good track and field athlete before martial arts, and he is one of the most explosive and well-conditioned athletes we've seen in MMA.

he is also a big, big dude.

hey, whatever gets the job done....

 

[Soph]

I'm going to take you all to the bank, the BLOOD BANK!

SS on Top Cruise:

I don't know if this is true, but it sounds like him:

"I was raised in Japan. I was schooled in martial arts. I was given the title of master. They take a movie The Last Samurai. They have a five foot two inch little guy, whether he was straight or gay, I don't know. I don't care. He had never been to Japan. He doesn't speak Japanese. He has never held a sword. They make him the last samurai." [22]

 

[retronotmetro]

Originally Posted by Soph

I'm going to take you all to the bank, the BLOOD BANK!

SS on Top Cruise:

I don't know if this is true, but it sounds like him:

"I was raised in Japan. I was schooled in martial arts. I was given the title of master. They take a movie The Last Samurai. They have a five foot two inch little guy, whether he was straight or gay, I don't know. I don't care. He had never been to Japan. He doesn't speak Japanese. He has never held a sword. They make him the last samurai." [22]

Doesn't sound like Seagal to me. First, he wasn't raised in Japan. Second, for whatever other self-promoting tendencies he may have, he doesn't run around calling himself "master" which would be a sure ticket to destroying whatever goodwill (and I assume without any basis that it's a fair amount) he may have with the Aikikai.

 

[mizanation]

that's classic seagal.

sorry to burst your bubble, but he's frickin' lunatic and an complete egomaniac. he's sexually harrased a couple of my friends. if you've ever seen an interview with him, he's completely out of his mind.

even his japanese sucks.

 

[zjpj83]

Why would you ever fight anyone period? Is facing assault charges really that appealing?

I love all these purportedly matter-of-fact claims being made about the "real world."

In the "real world" anyone laying a finger on me is going to be behind bars and funding my next few automobile purchases.

 

[Goblin]

On the audio commentary for "Cradle 2 the Grave," Jet Li acknowledges that the UFC fighters who make appearances in that movie would tear him up in real life ... he trains theatrical wu shu for the movies, not for the ring or the street. That said, I'm sure he's someone that the average hobbyist (e.g., me) would not want to tangle with.

I got to train with Royce Gracie at seminars for 3 days in 2002. Basically like fantasy camp for me. Even got to go out to eat with him twice, once at Outback Steakhouse where he demonstrated that on the road, the "Gracie Diet" consists of eating like a hyena with a tapeworm, and once at a BW3. The BW3 was funny because one of the local punk rock kids saw one of my friends with a Royce sweatshirt on and commented on it, only to have Royce pointed out to him a couple tables away.

Said punk rock kid ran down the street and brought all his friends to meet Royce, it was absolutely hilarious.

It was a sad night for me when Royce fought Matt Hughes. The result wasn't unexpected, just sad, because he's the guy who got me into the sport to begin with.

Below is a link to a group of articles on the "street vs. sport" debate. The articles obviously come down favoring "sport" style training. I agree with a lot of the points they make - not all, but a lot.
http://www.straightblastgym.com/street.htm

I do know that I've met black belts and other folks who are supposedly "teh deadly" who are either ridiculously out of shape or obviously unaccustomed to sparring and who kind of freak out as soon as they either get hit or get taken down. And I'm not really very good, like, at all. Like I said, a hobbyist.

If I had to put money on the *average* high school wrestler vs. the *average* martial arts black belt, I'm putting the money down on the wrestler every time, just because I know he's athletic and aggressive and can handle pain and adrenaline dump. If the martial arts black belt in question wears camo BDUs but has never served in the military, I'll give 2-to-1 odds.

 

[Tck13]

Originally Posted by mizanation

that's classic seagal.

sorry to burst your bubble, but he's frickin' lunatic and an complete egomaniac. he's sexually harrased a couple of my friends. if you've ever seen an interview with him, he's completely out of his mind.

even his japanese sucks.

Oh please. He'd kick your ass...


If you were a woman...


and you were married to him...


and very weak....

Didn't he face assualt charges after beating his wife???

Why would you ever fight anyone period? Is facing assault charges really that appealing?

I love all these purportedly matter-of-fact claims being made about the "real world."

In the "real world" anyone laying a finger on me is going to be behind bars and funding my next few automobile purchases.

I think it's rare that someone really likes to go out and fight (in the "real world") or sets out to do so. I guess it's more likely when some sort of drug is involved (alcohol). Fighting in a controlled environment can be fun (and I think that's where it should be done).

Practicing a martial art, or trainging, or anything like that really does bring confidence and, for me, would help in defending myself if I was ever attacked. I would defend myself but I think most people avoid fighting for the most part.

And before anyone says anything, I said, "for the most part".

 

[zjpj83]

I agree. I think fighting in a controlled environment with protection, rules, etc. can be a great sport. I know my dad boxed when he was young.

 

[nairb49]

I totally agree. Especially in terms of psychological development, I think its an excellent tool for anyone learning, not limited to children.

Its just a real shame when you encounter some sensei who is all gung-ho about fighting this and showing off that etc etc and really getting the message all wrong.

 

[Bic Pentameter]

Originally Posted by Soph

"I was raised in Japan. I was schooled in martial arts. I was given the title of master. They take a movie The Last Samurai. They have a five foot two inch little guy, whether he was straight or gay, I don't know. I don't care. He had never been to Japan. He doesn't speak Japanese. He has never held a sword. They make him the last samurai." [22]


Steven Segal supposedly studied at a dojo in Osaka for 7-10 years. I saw him on a Japanese television talk show two years ago. He appeared with his daughter. His Japanese seemed moderately seemed passable. He had difficulties, but I attributed them to him being out of Japanese mode for quite a while. It can be tough to maintain fluency without regular practice.

 

[Goblin]

Originally Posted by nairb49

Its just a real shame when you encounter some sensei who is all gung-ho about fighting this and showing off that etc etc and really getting the message all wrong.
BOW TO YOUR SENSEI!

 

[Gradstudent78]

Originally Posted by Soph

I'm going to take you all to the bank, the BLOOD BANK!

SS on Top Cruise:

I don't know if this is true, but it sounds like him:

"I was raised in Japan. I was schooled in martial arts. I was given the title of master. They take a movie The Last Samurai. They have a five foot two inch little guy, whether he was straight or gay, I don't know. I don't care. He had never been to Japan. He doesn't speak Japanese. He has never held a sword. They make him the last samurai." [22]

I don't think Tom Cruise was the last samurai, I think the title actually refers to Ken Watanabe's character, as least that was my take on it.