Adrian Jules - a review

[Ben W]

Hi folks. I hope reviews are allowed here. Apologies if not.

Please take a look at the photos comparing my Adrian Jules suit to another suit in the same price range. Which would you want? PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU VIEW THE PICTURES!!!

I really wanted a suit with the fit and finish of Savile Row without having to make multiple trips to London. I was initially very excited to work with Adrian Jules, as they advertise themselves to be Rochester, NY-based bespoke clothiers and “America’s best worn secret.” When asking around and consulting places like StyleForum I wasn’t able to find much information about them, but in reviewing their website and speaking with them on the phone it sounded like they fit the bill.

I ended up spending over $4000 on one suit, shirt, and braces, which is twice what I had spent on custom suits previously elsewhere. By far it was the most expensive outfit I had ever considered purchasing. I stretched my budget a bit to make it work, but felt I was going to be given the “true bespoke” experience. I was super excited.

When my bespoke suit was ready, I went in and tried it on. There was an initial honeymoon phase where I felt quite content, however that quickly wore off and I started seeing issues that were obvious even to my untrained eye. I have friends who are more knowledgeable than I, and so I started showing this suit around to get some opinions. The reaction was less than positive.

I wore my suit out for the first time to show it off to my more knowledgeable friends. When comparing pricing, quality of workmanship, and quality of material with their suits I started to get really upset. It was clear to me at this point that the little things I had started to notice were not the norm for such an expensive outfit. Not only was it painfully obvious that the workmanship on my Adrian Jules suit was completely inferior, I also spoke with a gentlemen that deals in fabric and found out that the material used on my $4000 suit was run of the mill fabric that wholesales for about $50 per yard. He indicated this is the quality of fabric that would be typically used on a much less expensive off the rack suit. He estimated that I overpaid by about $3000 based on the fabric alone, setting aside the poor workmanship. I started to feel sick to my stomach over this. I became embarrassed and beyond angry.

Here is my suit, next to one of my friend’s suits, which cost roughly the same amount of money. Take a look. For the price, which would you rather have? The gray suit is mine, from Adrian Jules, and the blue belongs to my friend.

When I asked about the lack of some of these details I was told… I didn’t ask for them! Really? I was supposed to ask them to produce a high quality garment for me, when paying $4000 for it? I told them up front that I was relatively new at this. I have come to find out that I am not the only one who has had problems like this. I feel that my inexperience was taken advantage of. Pictures speak a thousand words. It would be bad enough if it was just a bad fit and poor workmanship. Those are things that could’ve been addressed by a remake. But to find out that I was sold a cheap fabric at top dollar on top of it… now that’s unforgivable.

I contacted Adrian Jules multiple times requesting a refund. I provided pictures and descriptions illustrating the issues. I tried to talk to them about the fabric choice. We ended up going back and forth over eight or so emails and half a dozen text messages spanning a three week period before ultimately they allowed me to drop off the suit, and mailed me a check.

To be fair to them, I’m quite happy with the shirt, but that isn’t what I went to them for. I went for a suit, and as far as that is concerned I feel I paid for a Rolex and received a Timex. That about sums it up. I guess now I know what to look and ask for.

 

[ValidusLA]

I think you are right to feel aggrieved at that price point.

Despite the fact that your friends suit has some seriously gauche styling choices, it does appear better constructed.

Has AJ offered to fix?

 

[Ben W]

Ultimately they ended up issuing a refund for the suit. Not without a struggle!

 

[ValidusLA]

You know, there are a lot of shops who wouldn't have done that, so I will give them credit for that.

That being said, I wouldn't go back there at that price.

If you are ever in Los Angeles I'd be happy to point you at better options that aren't marked up that badly.

 

[Ben W]

I agree! They did the right thing by issuing a refund, but I don't feel that it excuses the incredibly poor work that they provided upfront. Thanks for the offer! I'm not much of a traveler, which is why I was trying to shop local to begin with.

 

[mux8]

Wow, I'm glad to know my SuSu is better made and finished then what is posted here.

 

[Crispyj]

If you're near upstate, try Frank Shattuck.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

Take a breath, dude....Now, assuming that this post isn't satire:

First of all, $4000 is them taking you for a ride any way you cut it. I think Frank Shattuck next door will do one for you for a lot less than that, and it's a true benchmade one-man operation run by a guy who lives and breathes this stuff, instead of this factory-lite thing Adrian Jules is doing. So the whole thing was a bad purchase right off the bat probably.

Second, how does it fit? Optimized fit is what bespoke is all about, not tacky little details like contrast buttonholes. If the fit is better than you can get off the rack or MTM, then they are doing their job and you are getting your money's worth, sort of. Related to fit is the construction of the shoulders and the chest of the jacket, which you did not compare. Everything else, like contrast stitching, is just details which you can have replicated for $299 at Indochino.

You seem really hung on on a sprinkling of very minor details, the stuff that Savile Row shops used to pay freelance "finishers" to do, and you might not even be right to get mad about some of this stuff. Like, your friend's buttonhole looks machine made, as it is way tooooo tidy. Yours is perfectly imperfect, typical of handwork. Other things are strictly a matter of taste, such as the corner reinforcements and the pocket liners. For example, your friend's suit is much too gaudy for anyone except perhaps a club promoter or a reality TV star. You can't really fault a maker for not doing these very specific details, which most people don't even like. A few things I can't really tell what's going on since you're zooming in with a microscope, except that nothing looks obviously wrong.

Overall this just seems like poor management of expectations on their part and and perhaps an overreaction on yours.

 

[Bromley]

Some of the workmanship in your photos is not great, particularly button holes, but other things you've taken issue with are pretty normal. That extra "D" stitching on the pocket jetting is not any indication of quality, and you won't find it on most Savile Row made suits. Lining the inside of pocket flaps may even be preferable to cloth in order to reduce bulk, so that's no indication of quality. Neither is the fact that the cloth cost $50/yard. Some of the nicest cloth I know is available at $45/yard. Cloth price is not necessarily an indication of quality, and there are many expensive, inferior cloths out there. And backer buttons seem excessive on a suit jacket-- they add unnecessary bulk to buttons that probably aren't used that hard.

That said, $4,000 is a lot of money for a suit with a some poorly executed details, and I think I would be in touch with AJ about that, too. But all in all, I think the fit is the most important thing in a suit. How did it fit? And how did your friend get sold a suit with that red stitching all over the ******* place?

 

[Ben W]

If you're near upstate, try Frank Shattuck.

Frank would be closer than NYC for me, but still likely an impractical distance. Thank you for the recommendation though! Fortunately I've now found a tailor in Rochester that I'm happy with. It isn't bench made, but the quality and attention to detail is there, and the rapport with the tailor is excellent.

Take a breath, dude....Now, assuming that this post isn't satire:

First of all, $4000 is them taking you for a ride any way you cut it. I think Frank Shattuck next door will do one for you for a lot less than that, and it's a true benchmade one-man operation run by a guy who lives and breathes this stuff, instead of this factory-lite thing Adrian Jules is doing. So the whole thing was a bad purchase right off the bat probably.

Not satire. Totally agree that for me it was ultimately an ill advised purchase. I was just really hoping to find something like what one might find on Saville Row locally, as traveling there isn't in the cards for me. Classic menswear is a hobby for me, and I don't have an unlimited disposable income. As mentioned in my review $4000 is quite a lot of money for me.

Second, how does it fit? Optimized fit is what bespoke is all about, not tacky little details like contrast buttonholes. If the fit is better than you can get off the rack or MTM, then they are doing their job and you are getting your money's worth, sort of. Related to fit is the construction of the shoulders and the chest of the jacket, which you did not compare. Everything else, like contrast stitching, is just details which you can have replicated for $299 at Indochino.

You seem really hung on on a sprinkling of very minor details, the stuff that Savile Row shops used to pay freelance "finishers" to do, and you might not even be right to get mad about some of this stuff. Like, your friend's buttonhole looks machine made, as it is way tooooo tidy. Yours is perfectly imperfect, typical of handwork. Other things are strictly a matter of taste, such as the corner reinforcements and the pocket liners. For example, your friend's suit is much too gaudy for anyone except perhaps a club promoter or a reality TV star. You can't really fault a maker for not doing these very specific details, which most people don't even like. A few things I can't really tell what's going on since you're zooming in with a microscope, except that nothing looks obviously wrong.

Overall this just seems like poor management of expectations on their part and and perhaps an overreaction on yours.

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I respectfully disagree with many of your viewpoints, particularly that the level of workmanship found on this is acceptable at this price range.

As for the design choices made by my friend... well, all I can say is I guess that's why it is a good thing we have custom options available to us. We don't all have to get / like the same thing. It wouldn't be my personal choice either, but if it works for him I'm not trying to hold that against him. The quality for the price is more the conversation here than intentional design choices by the customer. I didn't mention contrast stitching at all in my post.

To answer your question: the fit was 'okay,' not great. But frankly as a first garment that isn't even what I take issue with here. I'm admittedly a challenging fit, and so I wasn't expecting perfection on a first go.

Some of the workmanship in your photos is not great, particularly button holes, but other things you've taken issue with are pretty normal. That extra "D" stitching on the pocket jetting is not any indication of quality, and you won't find it on most Savile Row made suits. Lining the inside of pocket flaps may even be preferable to cloth in order to reduce bulk, so that's no indication of quality. Neither is the fact that the cloth cost $50/yard. Some of the nicest cloth I know is available at $45/yard. Cloth price is not necessarily an indication of quality, and there are many expensive, inferior cloths out there. And backer buttons seem excessive on a suit jacket-- they add unnecessary bulk to buttons that probably aren't used that hard.

Your comment about price not always equating to quality is well taken, but the issue with this is the price that was paid for the suit compared with the price of the fabric. I paid for expensive fabric and got inexpensive fabric.

But all in all, I think the fit is the most important thing in a suit. How did it fit? And how did your friend get sold a suit with that red stitching all over the ******* place?

I addressed this above in my reply to stuffedsuperdud. The fit really isn't what is at issue here, and neither are my friend's design choices. I wasn't trying to compare his stylistic preferences to mine, but rather the quality of the workmanship on his comparably priced suit to that on mine.

That said, $4,000 is a lot of money for a suit with a some poorly executed details, and I think I would be in touch with AJ about that, too.

This is exactly the heart of the issue, and why I took the time to write this review. ?I don't fault anyone who decides to buy a suit from AJ, I just want folks to be aware of what they may be getting. Many, like myself at the time, may not be aware they may want to look for such details. Others may not care, and that's fine too. For me, I was ultimately disappointed after spending so much money that the attention to detail was what it was.

 

[papado]

I certainly agree some of these details aren't as sharp as they should given the price point. However a lot of these items you're picking at are not functional or even signs of quality and have almost nothing to do with the functionality of the suit. A lot of these overseas custom makers do all these superfluous steps to make the garment seem more intricate when it really adds nothing to the suit.

This reminds me a little of Reddit threads where everyone complains about how clean the welt-join is on a pair of shoes as though that is the be all, end all of shoe construction quality when it's purely cosmetic. $4k is not an insignificant amount for a suit and you should be quite happy with the results. However, I'd recommend going forward that you don't start looking at the back side of handmade buttonholes as the litmus test of what defines a quality suit.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

Thanks for sharing your perspective. I respectfully disagree with many of your viewpoints, particularly that the level of workmanship found on this is acceptable at this price range.

As for the design choices made by my friend... well, all I can say is I guess that's why it is a good thing we have custom options available to us. We don't all have to get / like the same thing. It wouldn't be my personal choice either, but if it works for him I'm not trying to hold that against him. The quality for the price is more the conversation here than intentional design choices by the customer. I didn't mention contrast stitching at all in my post.

To answer your question: the fit was 'okay,' not great. But frankly as a first garment that isn't even what I take issue with here. I'm admittedly a challenging fit, and so I wasn't expecting perfection on a first go.

It seemed like you placed a lot of value in the funky details your friend got, and was miffed that AJ didn't include them in yours. You're rocking a purple boutonniere hole, after all, which I would have strongly advised against. Perhaps I was wrong. But I do maintain that this was still a misunderstanding on your part as to where your $$$$ was going. A Savile Row joint like Gieves and Hawkes charges what they do because rent on Savile Row is high and they do indeed spend the time on all the little details. A hardcore purist like Frank Shattuck charges what he does because it takes him damn near forever to do everything by hand the "old world way" as he calls it. Adrian Jules though....ehh....it looks a lot like most of your money is going towards their marketing... They seem more focused on luring in people with lots of disposable income who buy certain things because they think that that is what rich people do, and don't actually know much about said things. Like, their suits seem to pair well with Omegas and Porsches and yachts and other things popular with noveau riche types... It seems like that was what they were offering for $4000, when that isn't what you were looking to buy. I don't know if this warrants such an emotionally charged response, except that perhaps you feel like they knew that this wasn't what you were looking for, and let it happen anyway, i.e. they tricked you.

 

[Ben W]

I certainly agree some of these details aren't as sharp as they should given the price point.

That's really my whole point here. Well, that and the fabric.

However a lot of these items you're picking at are not functional or even signs of quality and have almost nothing to do with the functionality of the suit. A lot of these overseas custom makers do all these superfluous steps to make the garment seem more intricate when it really adds nothing to the suit.

I mean... it really isn't entirely about function is it? Surely nobody needs to spend $4000 to have a "functional" garment, unless they have a significant deformity or some such?

This reminds me a little of Reddit threads where everyone complains about how clean the welt-join is on a pair of shoes as though that is the be all, end all of shoe construction quality when it's purely cosmetic.

You're not wrong. My argument is that for the price point the cosmetics should be super freaking sold, and in my case they were not. At the end of the day isn't most of what we're talking about here cosmetics?

$4k is not an insignificant amount for a suit and you should be quite happy with the results.

Exactly. I'm just sharing my opinion and my perspective here. I was not happy. Were my expectations high? Absolutely. But I don't think that is unreasonable when you're talking about a $4000 garment that is billed as bespoke.

However, I'd recommend going forward that you don't start looking at the back side of handmade buttonholes as the litmus test of what defines a quality suit.

Did I pick some nits here? Sure. But I think the overall quality of the suit is not commensurate with the price tag, and these are just some examples I picked to highlight that.

It seemed like you placed a lot of value in the funky details your friend got, and was miffed that AJ didn't include them in yours. You're rocking a purple boutonniere hole, after all, which I would have strongly advised against.

And that's fair. But again this isn't really about the stylistic choices on either end.

Perhaps I was wrong. But I do maintain that this was still a misunderstanding on your part as to where your $$$$ was going. A Savile Row joint like Gieves and Hawkes charges what they do because rent on Savile Row is high and they do indeed spend the time on all the little details. A hardcore purist like Frank Shattuck charges what he does because it takes him damn near forever to do everything by hand the "old world way" as he calls it. Adrian Jules though....ehh....it looks a lot like most of your money is going towards their marketing... They seem more focused on luring in people with lots of disposable income who buy certain things because they think that that is what rich people do, and don't actually know much about said things. Like, their suits seem to pair well with Omegas and Porsches and yachts and other things popular with noveau riche types... It seems like that was what they were offering for $4000, when that isn't what you were looking to buy.

Ding ding ding! I think you've nailed it. I expected time to be spend on all the little details. Instead, it seems to have gone toward marketing.

As I say, there may very well be plenty of people happy to pay $4000 for a suit of this quality because for them it is more about the name on the label than the end result, but that isn't what I was expecting or hoping for. Maybe someone will see this and it'll help set proper expectations. That's all I can hope for at this point. If after reading someone decides they really couldn't care less about all these details I've highlighted... that's cool. I'm not going to fault them for that.

I don't know if this warrants such an emotionally charged response, except that perhaps you feel like they knew that this wasn't what you were looking for, and let it happen anyway, i.e. they tricked you.

Tricked is a word that I feel fits the situation. I feel I paid for the name, rather than the garment. Fortunately they were generous enough to refund my money, and I give them credit for that. I just wanted to share my perspective so that others who might put stock in the kind of details I do can see what to expect.

 

[jefferyd]

Please take a look at the photos comparing my Adrian Jules suit to another suit in the same price range. Which would you want? PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU VIEW THE PICTURES!!!

I really wanted a suit with the fit and finish of Savile Row without having to make multiple trips to London.

Let me start by saying that I do not work for Adrian Jules, nor have I ever. I hesitate to even get involved in this thread, but since the internet is forever I feel I have to clarify a few things in as impartial a manner as I can.

You wanted something close to Savile Row, but chose to compare your suit to a suit which is almost certainly made in China- several of the details you show are very indicative of Chinese manufacturers, so you do have to take into consideration the cost of making something in New York State versus China or India. But let's address those details.

The buttonholes. They are made by hand. The backs of handmade buttonholes are never great but your friend's suit are actually quite good, better than many you would find on Savile Row.

The lapel buttonhole from AJ is standard, especially on SR. The one on your friend's suit was, until a few years ago, only ever found in Rome and in Paris; many tailors still do not know how to even do it. There is only one SR house that I am aware of that even offers it so they are certainly not standard. They are very time-consuming and since time is one thing in abundance in China we are seeing them on practically everything being made over there now o I hesitate to use them myself anymore.

You would never find those button reinforcements on a SR suit, nor most any other high-end suit. Those are one of the details that SCREAM China to me.

The corner reinforcement on your friend's suit appears to have been made by machine and is supposed to replicate a more discreet hand-sewn mezzaluna stitch which is sometimes found on Italian garments, but not many outside of Italy. I don't recall having seen it on SR garments very often but it is certainly not something that should be considered standard; it's also the kind of thing that we see sprinkled liberally all over suits made in China to dress them up. Same goes for the piping inserted in the facing seam seen in your label photo.

The pant hem is fairly standard for a machine finish- I can't tell what we're looking at on your friend's suit- not sure what those strap things are.

The label sewing are both done by machine- nothing is inherently better than one type of stitch than the other, though the stitch used on your friend's suit is intended to mimic a hand stitch. Drago is in the same general price range as the cloth you supposedly got in your suit.

The minimal reinforcement on the lapels; these stitches are intended to hold the lapel and collar together to reduce gaping, which is a stylistic choice. Some people design a gap between the collar and lapel and put no stitching at all. It cold be argued that the point of the stitching is to hold them together and they are not in fact performing that function properly so why do it at all? I don't like the way these stitches were executed because they are visible from the right side of the lapel, as seen in your photo of the lapel edges.

I prefer to use lining under the flaps to reduce bulk. It is a stylistic preference and nothing more.

I do find it odd that they would do machine buttonholes on the sleeve and that last one is misaligned, made even more obvious by the contrasting thread.

The AJ pant is machine-made, you are correct. The other suit is done by hand, but certainly not in a manner that you would regularly find in a SR suit.

The edges of the lapel could be cleaner, yes.

I understand your disappointment but were you to take your friend's suit to Savile Row and show it to a tailor as the gold standard they would sneer. Frank Shattuck would be even less polite.

 

[Ben W]

Thank you! I think you've made some very fair points, jefferyd. I'm glad you ultimately decided to get involved.

There is a lot of perception involved when it comes to this sort of thing, and the perception that I get looking at my friend's suit compared with what AJ made me is that a lot more care and attention to detail went into my friend's suit. Things are straighter, neater, and seemingly more well put together. Beyond stylistic choices I struggle to find anything unsatisfactory about it, while the AJ result appears sloppy upon close inspection. I understand the argument that much of this doesn't really affect the outward appearance or functionality of the suit, and I really wouldn't even disagree with that (except for the puckering on the lapels). It just upsets me for me to have that perception after spending so much money.

At the end of the day, I guess we all have our own opinions about what is important. I wanted to put this review out there so if others would be bothered by the same things I am, they are aware of what they may be getting on a AJ suit. Or, maybe it is something they'll want to have a conversation about when working with them. On the other hand they may look at this and say "who cares?" and that is fine too. Just as we all have different stylistic preferences we all have different expectations at various price points. This stuff bothered me, greatly. It may not bother the next guy at all.