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The official thrift/discount store bragging thread - Page 3691

post #55351 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMMcL View Post

Proves too much; would justify (as others have observed) opening a Rolex box and taking the watch out on the theory that the store didn't "find" the watch, only the box. Or stripping the lining out of a jacket on the theory that they still have the jacket. That can't be the right result.
More fundamentally, this is a stupid argument, and dangerously close to the vortex of the "morality of thrifting" argument we've gotten mired in too many times. Let's stop and get back to posting pictures.

Yeah, horrible, horrible example. With a rolex box, the rolex inside is expected and obviously integral to what's being sold. And the lining of the jacket is an integral part of the jacket- something found in a pocket isn't. You can't take the item for sale or part of the item for sale, obviously, since that compromises the sale for the store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by staxringold View Post

It's not abandoned property unless some customer after Goodwill bought the jacket accidentally dropped the bill in (matching the money on the floor market). If the money was in the jacket when Goodwill got the jacket, it's Goodwill's.
To argue otherwise would be like suggesting that you can drill oil on someone else's land if they haven't noticed they have oil underneath yet. Your property rights are complete, not just what you notice you possess.
EDIT - Oil is actually a terrible example, since some states do have (or have had) systems where whoever gets it first gets it (Eiliff v. Texon Drilling Co., 146 Tex. 575, stupid first year property) but you get my point.

Nobody's disputing that you can pick up a bill (or let's just say a quarter) off the floor of the goodwill, even though goodwill owns or otherwise controls the store. It's inside their property, so it must be theirs, right? What makes that so different to you?
post #55352 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by staxringold View Post

Maybe. Or maybe Goodwill got the jacket and the money. We saw a story a few pages back of a Goodwill that got shoes with several thousands dollars in them. Their policy was they hold it for some period of time, but then they keep it.
It seems both unsavory and risky to take $20 from a jacket you know someone else owns on the hope that it's ok because they didn't know it was there.

With the shoes, there were laws that applied- to confirm property above a certain value (depends on state, but usually a few thousand I think) as abandoned rather than misplaced or lost, you have to hold it and publicize the find so that an owner has a chance to reclaim it. So if you find a large bag of cash in the bushes, or somebody's left a new BMW in your driveway for a week with no apparent reason, you have to let the authorities know so that the rightful owners, if there are any, can reclaim it. If they don't, you get a nice visit from the IRS so that you can pay taxes on the value of your windfall.
post #55353 of 112740

Found EXACTLY what i've been looking to rock for the holidays  Polo Ralph Lauren made in italy blackwatch blazer.. fits great in the body... shoulders a bit too wide even though it's more like wearing a sweather than a blazer.   oh well.. still worth a pickup....

 

1000

 

 

700

 

 

700

 

 

Shoulder:  19.25

Sleeve:  26

Chest:  20.5" (x2)

Waist:  19" (x2)
Length:  31.5" from bottom of collar seam

post #55354 of 112740
How about this one: if it were a pocket square left in the jacket pocket, with no price tag, would it be ok to walk out with it? Or would you see it as store property, even if they didn't realize it was in the jacket?

It's easy to see the money as different, but is it? It doesn't really matter what the previous owner "abandoned", as it was donated or sold part-and-parcel to the store.

I think the argument is whether or not the PS/money is considered part of the jacket, not if it was abandoned. It's in the store, so it's their property, at least in my view. Even if it were just sitting on the floor, it's a hard argument to make that it's up for grabs, whether it's a PS or money.

Thought faced with the money, my logic may have taken a different path. The reality of the situation is that it's not likely to make it back to who it belongs to at any rate.
post #55355 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post

Nobody's disputing that you can pick up a bill (or let's just say a quarter) off the floor of the goodwill, even though goodwill owns or otherwise controls the store. It's inside their property, so it must be theirs, right? What makes that so different to you?

Because there the bill was clearly just lost/abandoned. I have a harder time swallowing that Goodwill wasn't taking ownership of the jacket and everything about it when they took it. I have no issue (lets talk morally) with paying the less than $20 price for the jacket, that's no different from getting a good name on a brand name clothing. You are operating on information Goodwill hasn't bothered to collect.

But I do have a problem with reaching into something that is clearly Goodwill's (and was Goodwill's when they acquired it, unlike the store which they bought with no lost money in it and money was subsequently lost) and extracting value from it. Would you take spare buttons from inside the jacket? No one here fakes garments, but say you did and found a sweet Kiton but it was too beat up to just buy to resell. Could you take the labels from inside the jacket to use on your fake?
post #55356 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digmenow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by VLSI View Post

So is taking the money out of pockets theft if you don't buy the accompanying jacket? nest.gif
Yes.
Perhaps I was unclear with my answer above.
Quote:
Definition of THEFT
1a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it
b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property

Did I enter the store with the item? No.
Did I remove the item from the store without it being accounted for by the store?
  • Yes, I took the item (money) that was not mine without the store's knowledge. Theft.
  • No, I purchased the coat that contained the item (money), thereby accounting for the coat and any contents as presented by the store. Not theft.
post #55357 of 112740

One thing to add...If it was a garage sale, and you found $20 in the pocket of an item...would you feel differently about it? Probably...but it is the same principle.

 

 

Let's break this up a bit.....

 

 

Brooks Brothers Navy Check Suit 42S 35/29

 

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

700

 

 

Brooks Brothers Hunter Green Camel Hair SC 46R

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

 

Brooks Brothers Tan Suit 42XL 38/31

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

700

 

 

Old Label Burberry Check SC 44S

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

 

H Freeman & Sons Gray Plaid Suit 40R 36/30

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

 

Harris Tweed 38L

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

 

Malcolm Kenneth Top Coat 40S

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

700

 

 

Whoa do you see the lapels on this thing??? 100% Cotton - 38R

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

 

Orvis Plaid SC 44R

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

700

 

 

Orvis Unstructured Linen/Cotton SC XXL (52R-54R)

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

700

 

 

Peak Lapel Tweed Overcoat 40L

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

 

Here is that bespoke Pritchett (London) suit again...40R 34/28 

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

700

 

 

Southwick Flannel Suit (3 roll 2) 44S/R 37/28

700

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

700

 

700

 

post #55358 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnwes View Post

...Let's break this up a bit.....
...

Whoa do you see the lapels on this thing??? 100% Cotton - 38R


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)




...

Looks dangerous!

lol8[1].gif
post #55359 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mox C View Post

How about this one: if it were a pocket square left in the jacket pocket, with no price tag, would it be ok to walk out with it? Or would you see it as store property, even if they didn't realize it was in the jacket?
It's easy to see the money as different, but is it? It doesn't really matter what the previous owner "abandoned", as it was donated or sold part-and-parcel to the store.
I think the argument is whether or not the PS/money is considered part of the jacket, not if it was abandoned. It's in the store, so it's their property, at least in my view. Even if it were just sitting on the floor, it's a hard argument to make that it's up for grabs, whether it's a PS or money.
Thought faced with the money, my logic may have taken a different path. The reality of the situation is that it's not likely to make it back to who it belongs to at any rate.

 

That's a pretty good example. I actually found a "made in Italy" handrolled PS in an orphan the other day without a price tag. I ended up taking it to the register and asking if I could just buy the pocket square.

 

They ended up just giving it to me for free but the point it that it was their property first.

post #55360 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post

Yeah, horrible, horrible example.
Actually, I think it's a very GOOD example. Your reasoning -- granted by extension -- would justify taking it. You now recant. QED, your reasoning is shit.

SHIT IN ITEMS IN STORES AIN'T YOURS UNTIL YOU PAY. You don't have any more claim to a $20 in the pocket of a jacket than you do to a Rolex in a box or to a $20 bill in the pocket of MY jacket that I leave on the hanger while trying on other jackets or to my dog if it wanders off my property onto yours. It's been years since I took property (or philosophy or morality or Kindergarten) too, but I know this: "Finders Keepers" isn't the law of the land. It's at least more complicated than that. In this instance, everything is magically solved if you BUY THE FREAKING JACKET. Now the $20 is yours. And you still walk out richer than you walked in. Everybody. Wins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katch View Post

Found EXACTLY what i've been looking to rock for the holidays  Polo Ralph Lauren made in italy blackwatch blazer.. fits great in the body... shoulders a bit too wide even though it's more like wearing a sweather than a blazer.   oh well.. still worth a pickup....
Oh sweet mother of God! inlove.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digmenow View Post

Did I enter the store with the item? No.
Did I remove the item from the store without it being accounted for by the store?
  • Yes, I took the item (money) that was not mine without the store's knowledge. Theft.
  • No, I purchased the coat that contained the item (money), thereby accounting for the coat and any contents as presented by the store. Not theft.
+1
post #55361 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by katch View Post

Found EXACTLY what i've been looking to rock for the holidays  Polo Ralph Lauren made in italy blackwatch blazer.. fits great in the body... shoulders a bit too wide even though it's more like wearing a sweather than a blazer.   oh well.. still worth a pickup.... Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)









Shoulder:  19.25
Sleeve:  26
Chest:  20.5" (x2)
Waist:  19" (x2)
Length:  31.5" from bottom of collar seam

congrats! that's one of the first blackwatch jackets i've seen posted that didn't look super old or fuddy-duddy.
post #55362 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by staxringold View Post

But I do have a problem with reaching into something that is clearly Goodwill's (and was Goodwill's when they acquired it, unlike the store which they bought with no lost money in it and money was subsequently lost) and extracting value from it. Would you take spare buttons from inside the jacket? No one here fakes garments, but say you did and found a sweet Kiton but it was too beat up to just buy to resell. Could you take the labels from inside the jacket to use on your fake?

Spare buttons, labels, and all are still part of the jacket. You are removing attached elements- it's still not a comparable situation.

You're not extracting value from the jacket, because the bill is not part of the jacket, just as the quarter on the floor in the store is not part of the store simply because it is inside the store. You're not extracting anything away from the jacket at all- it's simply where the abandoned property happened to be found. They are two entirely different items- one of which has clear ownership, one of which does not.
post #55363 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMMcL View Post

Actually, I think it's a very GOOD example. Your reasoning -- granted by extension -- would justify taking it. You now recant. QED, your reasoning is shit.

My reasoning only leads to that conclusion if you start with additional assumptions that I don't acknowledge as true- namely, that the bill is part of the jacket. If you make that assumption, yeah, it leads to that conclusion. But I don't think it's a valid assumption.
post #55364 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by staxringold View Post

To argue otherwise would be like suggesting that you can drill oil on someone else's land if they haven't noticed they have oil underneath yet. Your property rights are complete, not just what you notice you possess.
EDIT - Oil is actually a terrible example, since some states do have (or have had) systems where whoever gets it first gets it (Eiliff v. Texon Drilling Co., 146 Tex. 575, stupid first year property) but you get my point.

I'm bowing out of this. Putting it into context, I thought, what would I advise my kids? That resolved it for me.

Anyway: I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!


Background: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2008-02-03-blood-milkshake_N.htm
post #55365 of 112740
Quote:
Originally Posted by katch View Post

Found EXACTLY what i've been looking to rock for the holidays  Polo Ralph Lauren made in italy blackwatch blazer.. fits great in the body... shoulders a bit too wide even though it's more like wearing a sweather than a blazer.   oh well.. still worth a pickup....

That's awesome. I STILL need to go to the tailor to get the bottom of mine hacked off a bit.

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