What is wrong with Brioni?



Dandy Wonka said:

But maybe they were tanking already and thought this was the way out? Who knows.

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I see no other explanation.

I'm totally mystified by the development, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense, business-wise. I'm sure they didn't sink this kind of money into an overhaul without having a new target audience in mind, market analysis etc. And to be honest, from my perspective it isn't a loss for classic menswear as well; there are a lot of brands that do the same thing they do, just without the big name and thus for a better price.

Viral said:

Ummmm.......please remind us....who are you??

I'm sorry, but I'm sure nobody at Brioni is going to check with you before making decisions about their business.

Sorry to break it to you....

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I am a client and they'd better check with me if they want me to spend my money on their product.

The PG article hit it on the head. They were bought out by Kering and put in the direction of a "fashion brand". In so doing Brioni has neglected and forsaken their sartorial history. It is really sad. When I first decided to take on the task of being a bespoke tailor Brioni was a work of art to me. A respected brand that was upholding the sartorial tradition. It's sad to see how "Gucci" it is now and how far from hand made it is. If one ever has the courage to open up a $8k off the peg suit you will be surprised at how little hand work is left inside a modern Brioni



gs77 said:

Maybe they should... Smart businesses never turn back on customer base that made them what they are - in this case wealthy, probably middle aged men, that appreciate classical style.

This is what happens when brand is taken over by "investors", who install bunch of flashy designers and copy/paste recent MBA graduates and spreadsheet managers, with 0 experience in real world.
"We should appeal to gen-Z... Milenials will soon have all the buying power... "

Yeah, sure... The problem is, once they acquire buying power, they will want to wear Kiton and Attolini, just like they will want to drive Ferrari and not some hybrid crap.

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How do you know it wasn't that core customer base that started the downfall? Now a days, those people aren't keen to spending $5,000 on suits as they used to

High end suit market is not doing bad

http://www.italy24.ilsole24ore.com/...n-markets-resilience-192346.php?uuid=ACNMl6GC

cyc wid it said:

The pearl clutching is strong in this thread.

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amazing

on another note, never having much experience with Brioni, it's a shame this logo has been cast aside, it's like the Ferrari Dino 246 of typefaces



pine tree said:

How do you know it wasn't that core customer base that started the downfall? Now a days, those people aren't keen to spending $5,000 on suits as they used to

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You didn't really understand what I wrote.
I don't think their core market is spending less per suit, I think there are just less of them due to a) aging, b) shift of economic power to different geography.

Younger buyers, and Asian and Russian buyers (there, I said it!) are not willing to pay $5k for the same looking **** costing far less; that they uses to wear before they acquired buying power. What they want is to project that "Italian industrialist", or "NYC Lawyer" image - original customer base of brand like Brioni.

And, other brands are doing just fine. Maybe Brioni should have fought tooth and nail for James Bond, instead of siding with Metallica and letting Tom Ford win

See where I'm going with this?

gs77 said:

You didn't really understand what I wrote.
I don't think their core market is spending less per suit, I think there are just less of them due to a) aging, b) shift of economic power to different geography.

Younger buyers, and Asian and Russian buyers (there, I said it!) are not willing to pay $5k for the same looking **** costing far less; that they uses to wear before they acquired buying power. What they want is to project that "Italian industrialist", or "NYC Lawyer" image - original customer base of brand like Brioni.

And, other brands are doing just fine. Maybe Brioni should have fought tooth and nail for James Bond, instead of siding with Metallica and letting Tom Ford win

See where I'm going with this?

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Then it makes sense to assume that the Kitons and the Attolinis would follow a similar trend. It would strike me that Kiton suits are not bought by the same economic stratum of clientelle as Brioni, or than Brioni onwers are by default of higher age than those who buy Kiton.



Martingale said:

Then it makes sense to assume that the Kitons and the Attolinis would follow a similar trend. It would strike me that Kiton suits are not bought by the same economic stratum of clientelle as Brioni, or than Brioni onwers are by default of higher age than those who buy Kiton.

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Not sure what I understand. But seams Kiton and Attolini is sticking to their image, or "what image they project" (high quality, very expensive, suited for wealthy people who not only have money, but some class as well, blah blah). Rightfully, they assume if they project this image, lot of new-money people will eventually come to them.

To expand a bit on my understanding why is Brioni in decline...

"Brioni" got it's name from famous summer resort island for wealthy Italians. Brioni is an island in Adriatic sea. Before WWII it (like most of Dalmatia and Istria) belonged to Italy.After WWII it became part of Yugoslavia. Brioni was used as Tito's (Yugoslav communist head of state) private island,where he even had a private zoo - it was really prototypical retreat of a James Bond bad-guy.

So, Brioni was, as a brand, projecting this kind of upper class image. "Nomen est Omen", after all. A bit of an "Italian industrialist", "NYC Investment Banker", but also a bit of "Shady businessman", "Third world dictator" type of image - all still great marketing in the cold war world.

So times change, but Brioni kind of remains in this image that no one wants to project any more. No one.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about. Is I google for images of "Kitonsuit", or "Attolini suit" I get images of some nice looking middle aged men, seemingly doing some serious business or relaxing with their good looking wives. They look sophisticated, rich, but also kind of... ethical if that makes sense. If I google for images of "Brioni suit" I will get some of the same stuff, but also a lot of Donald Trump and characters like John Gotti and other shady types.

Even the newest of the neuveau riche do not want to identify with Trump or Gotti. People that do want to identify with, say, Trump, do not have money to spend on Brioni suit. And, I didn't have any intention of making this into political discussion, just looking at it from marketing/branding perspective.

So, IMHO, as much as we like to talk about craftsmanship, quality, style etc, I think where Brioni falls short is branding, pure and simple.
Whether they will be able to turn ship around with new imaging, as they are trying? No, because they simply do not have brand potential as, for example, YSL.
Will their owners make money? Yes they will squeeze cash from the brand, burying it along the way.

Thanks for the history from @gs77 . It's pretty obvious where Brioni are trying to go. They're trying to move away from musty 'men's tailoring' and into runway 'high fashion' (SLP, Dior et al.). I am not sure who the market is - probably more Chinese entrepreneurs with money to burn than anyone else. But the Metallica video is quite amusing. The only thing I agree with the OP about is that the logo is a bit ****. Apart from that, this is all movement in a ludicrously expense niche section of the fashion market that doesn't really affect or worry me at all...

The new owner has taken the decision to target a different audience, obviously he thinks that will be (more) profitable. Those who liked the old designs will obviously be alienated but the die has been cast; Brioni is dead, long live Brioni.



gs77 said:

Maybe they should... Smart businesses never turn back on customer base that made them what they are - in this case wealthy, probably middle aged men, that appreciate classical style.

This is what happens when brand is taken over by "investors", who install bunch of flashy designers and copy/paste recent MBA graduates and spreadsheet managers, with 0 experience in real world.
"We should appeal to gen-Z... Milenials will soon have all the buying power... "

Yeah, sure... The problem is, once they acquire buying power, they will want to wear Kiton and Attolini, just like they will want to drive Ferrari and not some hybrid crap.

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perhaps.......but not gonna happen

double00 said:

The "who?" seems obvious enough: OP is somebody who has apparently bought brioni in the past and will likely stop in the near future.

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still not gonna happen.......

Martingale said:

I am a client and they'd better check with me if they want me to spend my money on their product.

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definitely not gonna happen.......

But of course.....please keep an eye on your phone - you might be the next person on the call list!



Viral said:

perhaps.......but not gonna happen
still not gonna happen.......
definitely not gonna happen.......

But of course.....please keep an eye on your phone - you might be the next person on the call list!

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@Martingale buying another suit from Brioni - ain't gonna happen.

gs77 said:

@Martingale buying another suit from Brioni - ain't gonna happen.

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Most likely not