Classic Menswear Lounge



Claghorn said:

My bigger problem with that particular fit was my choice in square.

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Excellent Clags. I was wondering what the dilemma was or what options you were looking at?

If it weren't patch, I'd've gone white linen. I didn't want to introduce any colors, so I was pretty much stuck with that square. I don't think it's bad, but it doesn't speak to me either.

Certainly not bad at all, works well for me. Glad about the no colour option/clarity. One of the reasons I asked as could be misconstrued.

thanks

in stitches said:

The tie and square pick up on each other with almost every color, with opposite majorities. Meaning, lots of blue in the tie, and a little brown, and visa versa in the square, with a few extra colors thrown in the square for variety and general complimentary color palate goodness. The shirt also is of a pretty similar blue to the tie, but slighter lighter. As such, I dont think its possible for one single item there to be the sole warm or cool color.

What I am saying is, I think its spot on. Shocking, I know.

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And still, the square looks out of place. The blue and brown in the square are too different from the blue and brown in the tie, and the red doesn't work at all in such a low contrast fit. The tie, shirt and suit are low contrast, and the hanky is hight contrast, which means it stands out too much. You have to take both colour and contrast into account.

Two issues here on Stitch's fit which might be good to talk about (I should be working so will be quick)

1. Contrast (what MF just brought up)
2. Warmth (saturation) which is what SB brought up earlier

We should discuss. But I think there are two issues here, though related.

We can agree though that his suit was lovely to behold.

Stitchy's suit is awesome. I don't love the square but I'm not too bothered by it here. I actually have a bigger issue with the shirt and tie pairing (I think a darker tie would be much better, either a dark blue, brown or burgundy).

Re: the whole space between stripes conversation, I prefer equal parts (or close to equal parts) while space and color. When the colored stripes are thinner, I think the white space can increase a bit and not have the shirt stand out. Also, when the colored stripes are lighter in color / less saturated, the same thing applies.

I really don't understand the point of shirts with thick colored stripes and thin white stripes. If the colored stripes are too dark, the shirt becomes hard to pair with a tie because you don't have enough white to counterbalance the color and if the colored stripes are light enough for it to work, I seldom see an example where a solid / semisolid shirt in the same color would not be a better choice.

I need to give this more thought and perhaps I'll elaborate once I have done so, but I think there's a tension between "is this interesting and in good taste?" and "is this ideal?". I look at Stitchy's fit and I like it, not only because it works, but because he made it harder than he had to. That suit, brown grossa grenadine, matte burgundy square? Done. A+. But we know that, he knows that, and more than likely we will eventually see that exact fit. It's a combination that replicates well across a variety of scenarios. You can teach it; you can buy it. I'm cash-strapped and not all that sure about what I'm doing sartorially, and I can learn it and buy it.

On the other hand, I would have had to think to get to the fit that Stitchy chose, and I would 100% not be able to replicate it with my current wardrobe because divergence from the norm magnifies difference. My closest tie to the one he chose does not work with that fit in any sense.

There's a concurrent conversation going on in a thread that Caustic Man started about whether WAYWRN is better or worse than in the days of yore. From my perspective, its greatest strength is the balance between perfectly executed exemplars of conservative style in the height of good taste, aspirants making progress toward that ideal, and people who intentionally and thoughtfully diverge from that norm just a bit. I don't think it's a coincidence that my favorite fits from (off the top of my head) Gerry Nelson, Claghorn, EliodA, and Stitchy--people who can and do deliver each time, every time--are the ones that show more creativity and/or risk.

ArchibaldLeach, completely concur on striped shirts. That's why I don't (and won't) own any butcher stripes.

I just can't believe we're still on the pencil stripe thing.. IMO it's one of those rare purely subjective/consensual aesthetic judgements.

@heldentenor IMO WAYWRN partIV is the best of the WAYWRN threads. Naturally there's a few howlers but the fits now are consistently better than they were back in the good old days. Makes sense that there's collective improvement over time.



heldentenor said:

I need to give this more thought and perhaps I'll elaborate once I have done so, but I think there's a tension between "is this interesting and in good taste?" and "is this ideal?".  I look at Stitchy's fit and I like it, not only because it works, but because he made it harder than he had to.  That suit, brown grossa grenadine, matte burgundy square?  Done.  A+.  But we know that, he knows that, and more than likely we will eventually see that exact fit.  It's a combination that replicates well across a variety of scenarios.  You can teach it; you can buy it.  I'm cash-strapped and not all that sure about what I'm doing sartorially, and I can learn it and buy it. 

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There's definitely some validity to this. I think the related question is "how far does it make sense to deviate from 'ideal' for the sake of variety?" This of course assumes that for any suit and shirt combination, for example, that there is an ideal tie or set of ties. Whether or not we agree that there's an "ideal" choice, I think we'd all agree that there are better and worse choices one can make. Part of the challenge of dressing in classic menswear to me is avoiding a scenario where I decide to only wear one or two ties with a particular suit and shirt, because at that point I'm diverging into premade outfits, something I think is antithetical to having a good intuitive sense of style. The reason I always advocate buying versatile pieces over something less versatile is because these versatile pieces can be used in many ways to create a variety of looks. The more versatile the piece, the more combinations that are close to "ideal" are possible, allowing one to create numerous combinations that all look very elegant.

I can see having a favorite tie to wear with a particular suit and shirt, but I definitely try to change things up. To an extent, that means I may be deviating from an "ideal," but I value avoiding monotony and having people notice / comment that I am wearing the same exact shirt and tie with a particular suit that I always do. Plus with well chosen pieces, switching to a few different ties may take a combination from say a 95/100 on a particular scale to a 93/100. If I were going from a 95/100 to an 80/100, I might feel differently. I'm not sure I'd consciously wear something that was an 80/100 when I could wear something that was a 95/100, but sometimes you decide to try a different combination and it seems better in your head than it looks once you leave the house.

For the record, I think that the tie Stitchy chose was okay for the outfit. It was the thing I liked the least about the fit, but it wasn't badly chosen by any means. I think the grey Donegal suit works with a few different shirt colors (Stitchy doesn't wear pink much if at all from what I've seen, so that leaves blue, white and blue/white stripes) and I can see quite a few different ties working. The suit is very versatile in terms of what it works with. The shirt less so, but there are still enough combinations that work.

Glad to have been the cause for such a nice conversation, gents.

Obviously I am biased, because if I did not like the combination, I would not have assembled it. And Id wear it again in a heartbeat. I have no other explanation other than to simply say, when I look at it, I think it looks nice (understatement for false humility). Nothing strikes me as out of place. Clearly I am alone in this, and I am ok with that.

Also, I think a brown/white stripe shirt will do quite well with that suit. In the end, I will probably end up wearing solid blue or solid white with it more often than not.



in stitches said:

Also, I think a brown/white stripe shirt will do quite well with that suit.

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Indeed it would. Forgot you had one of those.



in stitches said:

Glad to have been the cause for such a nice conversation, gents.

Obviously I am biased, because if I did not like the combination, I would not have assembled it. And Id wear it again in a heartbeat. I have no other explanation other than to simply say, when I look at it, I think it looks nice (understatement for false humility). Nothing strikes me as out of place. Clearly I am alone in this, and I am ok with that.

Also, I think a brown/white stripe shirt will do quite well with that suit. In the end, I will probably end up wearing solid blue or solid white with it more often than not.

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What Stitchy is trying to say is....piss off, wankers!

I loved it. No complaints here.



Murlsquirl said:

What Stitchy is trying to say is....piss off, wankers!

I loved it. No complaints here.

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I hope not, because what's the point of posting fit pics if you can't take criticism or at least enjoy the discussion that ensues? If you just want to show the world what you're wearing a tumblr would suffice. Anway, I'm sure that's not what Stitchy was trying to say.



Monkeyface said:

I hope not, because what's the point of posting fit pics if you can't take criticism or at least enjoy the discussion that ensues? If you just want to show the world what you're wearing a tumblr would suffice. Anway, I'm sure that's not what Stitchy was trying to say.

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Joking.

I assumed as much, but you see that attitude way too often in the WAWYRN thread, so I thought I'd reply just for the many lurkers.

Hell, someone even PM'd me for advice te other day and got offended when I said his tie is bad.