The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND F

TheFoo · Mar 22, 2013

I wear cufflinks with odd jackets, much to everyone else's chagrin.

sugarbutch · Mar 22, 2013

clapeyron said:
what's the consensus on wearing cuff links with every outfit? e.g. Victor SF wearing golden dunhills with contrast seam jeans trousers.

There isn't a consensus, but there's no reason not to wear them if you want to. Most wouldn't wear them with odd jackets, but it appears that at least Foo and I do.

irgendwas · Mar 22, 2013

I like minimalist shirts, but I would not want two shirts to be the same.
I prefer shirts to have the following characteristics:

White, cream, light blue, pink or light grey (maybe medium blue, lilac or tan)
Solid, semi-solid, narrow evenly spaced stripes or small evenly spaced check (I have mixed feelings about graph checks)
No more than one sort of coloured yarn (i.e. no multi-gingham or tattersall)
Semi-spread or button-down collar
Button cuffs

Because of my fondness for textures and various (decent) colours, achieving a wardrobe full of different minimalist shirts isn't difficult.
I think gingham is underrated, although I don't like large gingham checks.

DocHolliday · Mar 22, 2013

mafoofan said:
Yes and yes. No matter how unorthodox certain choices may have been at the time, they were characteristic of the wearer.

How is that different than every peacock that populates SF?

TheFoo · Mar 22, 2013

DocHolliday said:
How is that different than every peacock that populates SF?

Context, conviction, taste, and execution.

DocHolliday · Mar 22, 2013

mafoofan said:
Context, conviction, taste, and execution.

A lot of what both the DoW and Astaire wore in later life is absolutely awful. Would get them stoned out of the good taste thread. Don't make me dig up pictures.

You could argue they're compelling cases for your philosophy, but not in the manner you're suggesting. You're digging a hole here.

TheFoo · Mar 22, 2013

DocHolliday said:
A lot of what both the DoW and Astaire wore in later life is absolutely awful. Would get them stoned out of the good taste thread. Don't make me dig up pictures.

You could argue they're compelling cases for your philosophy, but not in the manner you're suggesting. You're digging a hole here.

Did I say the greats were infallible? To put a finer point on things: to the extent they are admirable for their style, it is for sticking to a coherently distinguishable manner of dressing. When they depart from that, all bets are off.

archibaldleach · Mar 22, 2013

clapeyron said:
what's the consensus on wearing cuff links with every outfit? e.g. Victor SF wearing golden dunhills with contrast seam jeans trousers.

Not really a consensus on this. Many hate this look and think cufflinks only appropriate for suits, or maybe a navy blazer with odd trousers. I like the look and feel of cufflinks and wear them almost exclusively when I am wearing a dress shirt of any kind. I've done this for about 7 years now. I've yet to meet anyone who's been negatively affected enough to say something.

Fuuma · Mar 22, 2013

mafoofan said:
Yeah, this is why I really don't think the choice matters in terms of formality.
Who's the rest of us? I don't recall anyone else in this thread who's claimed to have washed their Riva shirts 60-80 times without seeing any wear. ColdEyedPugilist above has washed his 20-30 times and is already experiencing fraying--apparently not where it can be seen when worn, but fraying is fraying. I've got no reason to lie about it myself. Back when I first started using Riva, very few others on the forum had any experience with it. I am simply being helpful. Funny thing is, back when I was happy with my Riva shirts, people like you accused me of being a shill and a neophyte. I think I know what's really going on here.

In nearly every discussion I take part of, you inject the same color of commentary: "I am from Naples and you are not, so what do you know about things from Naples?" Well, I know what I see, I explain myself carefully, and I don't expect anyone to credit me with expertise. Yet, I could comment that Naples is a city in southern Italy, and you'd no doubt argue with me about it because I'm not an "expert." This is getting really effing old.

Not to restart this bullshit but I'll have to go w. Foo, most of my shirts last 2 yrs or something when worn regularly; maybe my disgusting pits yellow the shirts, something rips, frays or whatever but those 5 y/o shirts are those that rarely get worn.

Fuuma · Mar 22, 2013

Manton said:
I am not in Italy as often as some, but I don't see link cuffs of either kind there very much. The vast majority are wearing buttons. I asked the guys at Battistoni about this once and they said that in Italy FC was for weddings and such, most men had one such shirt and rarely wore it. They said that they make lots of FC shirts for Americans but very few for Italians.

Ya. Italians mostly leave candy coloured stripes and FC to anglo-saxons. Not saying they're right but that's how it is.

DocHolliday · Mar 22, 2013

mafoofan said:
Did I say the greats were infallible? To put a finer point on things: to the extent they are admirable for their style, it is for sticking to a coherently distinguishable manner of dressing. When they depart from that, all bets are off.

The point is, the Duke was a sensation not because he complied with tradition but because he defied it. Astaire too. At their best, they balanced surprise with sobriety. They're an argument for restraint, not austerity.

TheFoo · Mar 22, 2013

DocHolliday said:
The point is, the Duke was a sensation not because he complied with tradition but because he defied it. Astaire too. At their best, they balanced surprise with sobriety. They're an argument for restraint, not austerity.

Where on earth did I say style had anything to do with complying with tradition?

DocHolliday · Mar 22, 2013

mafoofan said:
Where on earth did I say style had anything to do with complying with tradition?

Here's what you said:

mafoofan said:
What is the purpose of experimentation if not to find an answer? I'd say nothing. What is the value of experimentation for experimentation's sake alone? I'd say zero. Name a man of great style. Whoever you can come up with, he will be a man who found answers and then expressed them. He will not be one who ceaselessly experimented. If he had, he'd have no recognizable style to begin with.

Both the DOW and Astaire experimented to their dying day. Neither was the better for it, which goes to your intended point but not to the one you made.

TheFoo · Mar 22, 2013

DocHolliday said:
Here's what you said:
Both the DOW and Astaire experimented to their dying day. Neither was the better for it, which goes to your intended point but not to the one you made.

If a person dresses a certain way for decades and is very stylish, then in his older years begins to "experiment" more, resulting in poor results, that only goes to reinforce my point.

DocHolliday · Mar 22, 2013

mafoofan said:
If a person dresses a certain way for decades and is very stylish, then in his older years begins to "experiment" more, resulting in poor results, that only goes to reinforce my point.

The bolded is exactly what I said, not once but twice. But they didn't "dress in a certain way for decades": Astaire and the DOW experimented all their lives. That's what the Duke, in particular, was known for. He defied convention, set the fashions. But eventually their dandyism got the best of both of them.

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