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Advantages of a $1000 Pair of Shoes - Page 14

post #196 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Because you made it personal when you implied that I was somehow ingnorant of the quality of bespoke shoes and thus some sort of 'igent' simply because I purchase RTW shoes. It's an insulting statement. And you know perfectly well that you intended it as such. Your 'coy' response as to why I am 'taking it personally' is clearly just your way of 'baiting' the situation. I've read many of your posts on here and your mode of operation is not unknown to me.
As for the thread you mention it actually completely illustrates my point. In that nobody, including the many bespoke shoe experts on SF, was able to indentify a single bespoke maker in my region that could produce a quality bespoke dress shoe for anything remotely near $1000 dollars. Yes, many breezed through and implied that I surely was ignorant because I hadn't scared anyone up. But nobody coughed up any makers that were accessible to me without adding on thousands of dollars in travel costs. Reread the thread - you'll not find a single valid resource for someone living in the SE US.
The simple truth is that the vast majority of the world does not have ready access to bespoke footwear. Those of you who do are quite fortunate, but that geographical advantage does not render the rest of the world to be ingnorant 'igents'.
Too bad you aren't as willing to share your footwear with the world as I am. Perhaps if you weren't so jealous with your knowledge and resources you could contribute something of merit to this conversation. Again - shoe pics and detailed descriptions of what makes them superior please or GTFO.

 

I'm new and I don't have much experience in regards to footwear, but I didn't come here because I knew what I was doing. I came here to learn. I have enjoyed reading some of your very detailed posts GDOT.

 

In regards to posting PICs, seeing what others have chosen and why is all a part of the fun of a forum such as this.  Doesn't mean I will chose the same, but it doesn't hurt to look. Looking and being aware of what is out there just helps me get a better idea of what choices I actually have.

 

Thank you.


Edited by dddrees - 9/3/12 at 11:42am
post #197 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

 

Ok accept you did not intend to offend and likewise here.

 

But back to the thread, the point is in terms of shoes a higher price doesn't always correlate to greater attention to detail or even uniqueness. And where it does is the greater attention to detail or uniqueness a mark of quality? or is it a mark of design.The two don't always go hand in hand.

 

 

Sometimes it really just comes down to a matter of opinion. That being the opinion of the person who is buying the shoe or any other item they chose to buy. I can recognize and respect differences in a matter of opinion.

 

I could have bought a Timex. I chose to buy a Patek. Does that make the person who bought the Timex wrong? Does this make me wrong?

 

What's the difference? 

 

 

They both tell time.

post #198 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

Ok accept you did not intend to offend and likewise here.

But back to the thread, the point is in terms of shoes a higher price doesn't always correlate to greater attention to detail or even uniqueness. And where it does is the greater attention to detail or uniqueness a mark of quality? or is it a mark of design.The two don't always go hand in hand.

Ok - this is a valid point of discussion.

Although if you reread this thread I don't believe that I ever implied that a higher price necessarily equated to a shoe of a higher end value. Quite the opposite. I went so far as to illustrate how little value difference I personally found between the three illustrative makers of the black cap toe.

Conversely, I cannot comprehend in what way you would not correlate greater attention to detail with higher quality. The two are very closely linked in my mind. Higher levels of detail are certainly more costly to create, are they not? Further, I did go so far as to point out SPECIFIC items of detail that do indeed differentiate the cost of production and the net results of the end product.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to quantify the benefits of a fully bespoke shoe in as much detail? Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak. And before you start, I'll give you hand welted as a benefit. Even though the debate rages on as to whether or not there is any quantifiable advantage, I'll concede in advance that this feature is superior. Next you will talk about fit, this is again, a feature for many that matters a great deal. As a matter of fact most bespoke makers will tell you that the majority of their customers come to be bespoke customers out of specific and unusual fit issues that make RTW shoes difficult for the customer to wear.

Beyond that, what makes the purchaser of RTW shoes an ignorant Igent and the purchaser of Bespoke shoes an enlightened being to which we should all defer?

FYI - I'll help you out by adding my personal experience: I have a very normal and easy to fit foot, I've never in my 53 years suffered from a gemming failure. Although for the vast majority of my adult life I've lived in upper end Italian shoes which were blake construction. Just so you know my personal perspective.
Edited by Gdot - 9/3/12 at 11:57am
post #199 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by dddrees View Post


Sometimes it really just comes down to a matter of opinion. That being the opinion of the person who is buying the shoe or any other item they chose to buy. I can recognize and respect differences in a matter of opinion.

I could have bought a Timex. I chose to buy a Patek. Does that make the person who bought the Timex wrong? Does this make me wrong?

What's the difference? 


They both tell time.

this is exactly my point. there are many valid choices. based on many different criteria. the debate around here always comes down to the same thing though. those who go bespoke insist that their's is the only valid choice and the rest are just 'fan boys' and 'igents' both terms are meant to be derrogatory.

but it's all good. as if we were to simply agree that various choices were valid and simply move on we would never have these lively and informational exchanges.
post #200 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

seriously. how often do we have to go through this again and again? this is so annoying.
can you please stop polluting shoe threads which are not fan based? thank you.

Well - actually - this thread is about the difference between $500 and $1000 dollar RTW shoes per the original poster.

Those who have invoked the 'bespoke' angle are in fact the ones polluting the thread. As this is outside the realm of the intended converstation.

So I'll say to you exactly what you have said to me.

'Seriously, how often do we have to go through this again and again? It is so annoying. Can you bespoke/handmade FANBOYS please stop polluting threads that are not about bespoke and handmade shoes.'
post #201 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

Well - Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
actually - this thread is about the difference between $500 and $1000 dollar RTW shoes per the original poster.
Those who have invoked the 'bespoke' angle are in fact the ones polluting the thread. As this is outside the realm of the intended converstation.
So I'll say to you exactly what you have said to me.
'Seriously, how often do we have to go through this again and again? It is so annoying. Can you bespoke/handmade FANBOYS please stop polluting threads that are not about bespoke and handmade shoes.
'

you really don't get it.
post #202 of 416

Gdot you're clearly disturbed by the whole rtw shoe thing and I don't want to contribute to raising your stress levels. I'm not happy to be told to GTFO, but will apologize to you if I caused offense as none was intended.

 

I am perplexed though. You've clearly stated that you are a meticulous shoe guy, work in the world of creative big business in a very rarified environment, frequent the world's finest hotels and spend your time in meetings with people that frequent them, close multi-million dollar professional service contracts etc (all your words not mine).

 

Thinking about it you've actually gone to some lengths to make it clear that you are a very serious player and that in your environment a $500 pair of shoes won't hold their own. So naturally I assumed a pair of bespoke shoes would be right up your street.

post #203 of 416
This thread is getting too real for me...
post #204 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

Gdot you're clearly disturbed by the whole rtw shoe thing and I don't want to contribute to raising your stress levels. I'm not happy to be told to GTFO, but will apologize to you if I caused offense as none was intended.

I am perplexed though. You've clearly stated that you are a meticulous shoe guy, work in the world of creative big business in a very rarified environment, frequent the world's finest hotels and spend your time in meetings with people that frequent them, close multi-million dollar professional service contracts etc (all your words not mine). Thinking about it you've actually gone to some lengths to make it clear that you are a very serious player and that in your environment a $500 pair of shoes won't hold their own. So naturally I assumed a pair of bespoke shoes would be right up your street, pun unintended.

I am only disturbed by derogatory terms such as 'fan boy' and 'igent' as they are just that, insulting and derogatory, and clearly intended as such.

As to that which is right up my street you may well be correct, if I make partner this year or next, as is quite likely, fully bespoke shoes will be well within my reach. But I'm not there just quite yet. Part of my apparent frustration is probably a result of this very place that i am in my career, just on the cusp of making what I would term 'serious money'. Do bear in mind that the creative professions are not known for their high rate of pay. The world at large is just as loath to pay architects for high craft as they are to pay shoemakers. Moreso as a matter of fact - as the costs are much higher.

But shall we get back to the substance? Please? What is quantifiably superior in a fully bespoke shoe that makes you bespoke guys any less 'fan boys' than us RTW guys? Aside from custom fit for those who need it and hand welting that is?
post #205 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

you really don't get it.

Well, actuallly I think I do get it.

You happen to have access to quality bespoke shoes at a reasonable price from makers with whom you can form close personal relationships. If I were you I'd be buying nothing but bespoke too.

But say you had to spend thousands of dollars in travel and and twice as much for the shoes than you do now. This would mean that your relationship with your bespoke maker would be fractured into one or two visits per year. Would you still be feeling the same way? I seriously doubt it.
post #206 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post


I am only disturbed by derogatory terms such as 'fan boy' and 'igent' as they are just that insulting and derogatory and clearly intended as such.
As to that which is right up my street you may well be correct, if I make partner this year or next, as is quite likely, fully bespoke shoes will be well within my reach. But I'm not there just quite yet. Part of my apparent frustration is probably a result of this very place that i am in my career, just on the cusp of making what I would term 'serious money'. Do bear in mind that the creative professions are not known for their high rate of pay. The world at large is just as loath to pay architects for high craft as they are to pay shoemakers. Moreso as a matter of fact - as the costs are much higher.
But shall we get back to the substance? Please? What is quantifiably superior in a fully bespoke shoe that makes you bespoke guys any less 'fan boys' than us RTW guys? Aside from custom fit for those who need it and hand welting that is?

 

To me an igent is the modern gent, someone influenced more greatly by the aesthetics & design of an object rather than purely by it's quality.

 

A few years ago a retailer from Japan visited the factory where I worked and engaged in conversation about his love of leather shoes. He wanted labelling to show that the upper, inner and sole were all leather and the insoles to be embossed 100% leather construction. We could do the label but not the emboss, the amount of inferior non-leather components in factory made shoes has progressed to unacceptable levels for those of us that value the craft.

post #207 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

Well, actuallly I think I do get it. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
You happen to have access to quality bespoke shoes at a reasonable price from makers with whom you can form close personal relationships. If I were you I'd be buying nothing but bespoke too.
But say you had to spend thousands of dollars in travel and and twice as much for the shoes than you do now. This would mean that your relationship with your bespoke maker would be fractured into one or two visits per year. Would you still be feeling the same way? I seriously doubt it.

after all, i haven't brought up the bespoke part. if you feel like this, so be it.

it also doesn't matter how i became aware of the sources. it's been quite a bit of work.

carry on...
post #208 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post


Ok - this is a valid point of discussion.
Although if you reread this thread I don't believe that I ever implied that a higher price necessarily equated to a shoe of a higher end value. Quite the opposite. I went so far as to illustrate how little value difference I personally found between the three illustrative makers of the black cap toe.

 

Stop taking things personally man! I wasn't even commenting or reacting to your post.

post #209 of 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling View Post

To me an igent is the modern gent, someone influenced more greatly by the aesthetics & design of an object rather than purely by it's quality.

A few years ago a retailer from Japan visited the factory where I worked and engaged in conversation about his love of leather shoes. He wanted labelling to show that the upper, inner and sole were all leather and the insoles to be embossed 100% leather construction. We could do the label but not the emboss, the amount of inferior non-leather components in factory made shoes has progressed to unacceptable levels for those of us that value the craft.

This I understand. What you are saying is that you value the craft for the craft itself. I completely understand that. And I am not at all unaware of the fact that most RTW shoes contain plastic toe puffs, synthetic stiffeners, etc. etc.. I'm not happy about it either. But can I justify another grand per shoe to avoid these synthetic pieces? Perhaps - but I'd rather take a swell vacation.

So, thus far you have made it clear that your reasons are not particularly quantifiable, unless you are implying that these unacceptable inner materials somehow impact the end result negatively in a quantifiable way. Otherwise your love of craft is just as much of an irrational, emotional 'fan boyism' as my love of beauty.

To be 100% clear - I am well aware that there is no right or wrong here. My only request is that each of us acknowledges that our choices are not the only valid ones. That other choices, based on different criteria, are just as valid. I'm good with that. It just seems that those on the 'other side' of this conversation rarely give up their 'fanboy' 'igent' rhetoric. A review of my posts will reveal that I very rarely am baited into such name calling.
post #210 of 416
I haven't seen Gdot get this much shit since his debut on SF... smile.gif
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