Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures)

quar · Feb 22, 2012

DWFII said:
You realize, of course, that even the most conservative, classic English styled shoes actually are, at minimum, one inch longer than your feet?

Hey, I'm no expert. I just buy shoes, I don't make them. But my point remains the same. I wear the JL7000 and the U-Last almost exclusively, so really, I'm the pot calling the kettle black, but these G&G designs have just taken it a step too far.

God-forbid that I put-down some super-expensive bespoke product photographed by a store that has cult-like status around here. But I'm just calling it the way I see it.

sspp · Feb 22, 2012

DWFII said:
So I will beg indulgence as I explain this in the terms I understand...and someone can correct me if I make a mistake.
A vector is a direction or even a measure of velocity in one direction. Any change in the acceleration/velocity, plus or minus, is going to cause a change of direction. Too abrupt a change and you get an awkward curve--one that doesn't seem coherent or doesn't "flow."
The best example of an accelerating "fair" curve might be a mathematically perfect spiral.
OK...now I'm getting myself into deeper water than I can swim in, and I think I will leave it to others.

Thank you for the interesting post DWFII, I agree with your breast v/s foot example! There are a few inaccuracies in your post, so I'll try to complement the definitions you offered.
Velocity is a good example of a vector, but there are many others. Acceleration is also a vector, and so is any quantity that has a direction associated. Changes in magnitude do not necessarily imply a change in direction.
What you're trying to explain is a concept called "smoothness". The strict definition involves derivatives (smooth means all derivatives are continuous), and can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smooth_function for those mathematically-inclined.
As long as there are no "sudden" changes in acceleration, the trajectory we're tracing qualifies as smooth. As you can see, when tracing the toe of a shoe you have a very drastic change of direction, but that doesn't affect the smoothness of the curve. If you were to "bump" the pencil while you were tracing, then the resulting curve wouldn't be smooth at all, because that bump would mean a sudden change in acceleration, and therefore "break" the smoothness of the curve.
Any trajectory without "bumps" would be a good example of a "fair" curve, such as a sine, cosine, or, indeed, a spiral. If you see any "sharp corners", that generally means the curve is not smooth.
The golden mean is an interesting concept, and is intrinsically related to how we perceive proportion, but it's too deep a subject to explain in a few lines!
Hope it helps!

in stitches · Feb 22, 2012

cdmoore1855 said:
When you order from Tony you can choose your own last style, I took a friend to see Tony in HK today and he ordered a very basic round toed semi-Brogue. Tony's house style is slightly pointier but he will ask if you want it like that, its just that most of the shoes you see here or his sample shoes are mostly styled that way
Here is a beautiful new Norwegian Monk he has just made, it won't be your cup of tea but its stunning when you see it

By cdmoore1855 at 2012-02-21

these are beautiful.
---
is it may yet?

Xenon · Feb 22, 2012

sspp said:
Thank you for the interesting post DWFII, I agree with your breast v/s foot example! There are a few inaccuracies in your post, so I'll try to complement the definitions you offered.
Velocity is a good example of a vector, but there are many others. Acceleration is also a vector, and so is any quantity that has a direction associated. Changes in magnitude do not necessarily imply a change in direction.
What you're trying to explain is a concept called "smoothness". The strict definition involves derivatives (smooth means all derivatives are continuous), and can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smooth_function for those mathematically-inclined.
As long as there are no "sudden" changes in acceleration, the trajectory we're tracing qualifies as smooth. As you can see, when tracing the toe of a shoe you have a very drastic change of direction, but that doesn't affect the smoothness of the curve. If you were to "bump" the pencil while you were tracing, then the resulting curve wouldn't be smooth at all, because that bump would mean a sudden change in acceleration, and therefore "break" the smoothness of the curve.
Any trajectory without "bumps" would be a good example of a "fair" curve, such as a sine, cosine, or, indeed, a spiral. If you see any "sharp corners", that generally means the curve is not smooth.
The golden mean is an interesting concept, and is intrinsically related to how we perceive proportion, but it's too deep a subject to explain in a few lines!
Hope it helps!

So if I am reading you and DWFII correctly a fair curve would be one without any points of "inflection". Not sure if inflection is the proper term as all my calculus was done in french but basically signifies a point of discernible change in direction (2nd derivative I believe =0 ????) . So for instance even when tracing carefully the foot in order to avoid bumps when you get to the toes you have to change direction. What I don't understand completely is how far a fair curve must have no inflection at all? If I look at a G&G TG73 it seems that there are many points of inflection which I believe add to the beauty not detract from it. That said this does appear to conflict with the young woman's breast example which I imagine as completely fair and perfect.

sspp · Feb 22, 2012

Xenon said:
So if I am reading you and DWFII correctly a fair curve would be one without any points of "inflection". Not sure if inflection is the proper term as all my calculus was done in french but basically signifies a point of discernible change in direction (2nd derivative I believe =0 ????) . So for instance even when tracing carefully the foot in order to avoid bumps when you get to the toes you have to change direction. What I don't understand completely is how far a fair curve must have no inflection at all? If I look at a G&G TG73 it seems that there are many points of inflection which I believe add to the beauty not detract from it. That said this does appear to conflict with the young woman's breast example which I imagine as completely fair and perfect.

Xenon thank you for your reply, actually a point of inflection means a change in concavity. For a shoe example, the "arch" part of the shoe is concave, and the toe is convex, so there must be a point of inflection in between. You are correct when stating that a point of inflection means 2nd derivative = 0, but that doesn't imply a change of direction. Imagine a car accelerating to 100 km/h and then letting go of the gas pedal. The moment the acceleration changes sign (2nd derivative -acceleration- equals 0), is the point of inflection for the trajectory. But that doesn't mean the car has changed its direction!
Now, if something bumps into the car and changes its acceleration in a non continuous manner (crash), that would make its trajectory not smooth.
Regarding the "fair curve", I believe it's more about smoothness and grace of proportions than mathematical definitions.

scottcw · Feb 22, 2012

Mr. Moo said:
There was a discussion on AAAC a while ago about the GG Hove vs. EG Dover, and basically the Hove's vamp was deemed too long and the shoe too unbalanced when compared to the well balanced Dover. Perhaps GG can MTO a Hove with 5 eyelets instead of 4, thus making the vamp shorter and the shoe better balanced.

This is interesting as I just today came across the Hove on Leffot and prefer the look to the Dover. My aesthetic is that the longer vamp makes it dressier, where the Dover looks like a casual walking shoe. Strictly one man's opinion...

fritzl · Feb 22, 2012

in stitches said:
these are beautiful.

would look great on you. go for it :hide:

rikod · Feb 23, 2012

in stitches · Feb 23, 2012

yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

:drool:

patrickBOOTH · Feb 23, 2012

patrickBOOTH said:
I have an issue with my current G&G's (aside from the squeakiness). The left shoe when I walk the vamp bends dow cuts the top of my big toe. Is this just a sizing issue? I was thinking maybe going down a half a size, but in a wider width. Would this make any difference? When I was initially trying on shoes the uk 9 it seemed that my instep was too high, but it fit (laces could barely close) then uk 9.5 fit fine, but I have this toe cutting issue. Any ideas?

Oh hey, guys.

Son Of Saphir · Feb 23, 2012

quar said:
They are just too long. Not a little too long. Way too long. Who wants to walk around wearing shoes that make your feet look 1-inch longer than they are?

No no,
it choice,
Many Japanese man like long shoe like that.
lt Japan trunk show shoe me think.

culverwood · Feb 23, 2012

Xenon said:
Amen. I also believe this the reason why on average women have nicer feet then men.

Perhaps the women you know are younger than the ones of my acquaintance but womens' feet are often less than perfect from walking around for years on high heeled shoes that are too narrow for them causing bunions etc. In general I would have said they are wider in proportion to length compared to men.

Son Of Saphir · Feb 23, 2012

rikod said:

it look very good. :nodding:

Xenon · Feb 23, 2012

culverwood said:
Perhaps the women you know are younger than the ones of my acquaintance but womens' feet are often less than perfect from walking around for years on high heeled shoes that are too narrow for them causing bunions etc. In general I would have said they are wider in proportion to length compared to men.

I was focusing on the women in my family, but you're right, what I wrote was nonsense. I tend to have a very selective memory/focus where I wipe out any unpleasant images. Just today there was this cute woman at work and she was very young but despite that her feet appeared like those of women much older with all the deformities/irregularities you speak of.

JL724 · Feb 23, 2012

Any particular reason I never seem to see G&G shoes ordered in their grain or pigskin offerings? Calf and suede are obviously popular, but I have only seen one or two in grain and none in pigksin.

Getting ready to place my next order for a pair of the Hoves and thought about trying something different. Already have:

Burlington - Black Calf
Hayes - Vintage Oak
Rothschild - Vintage Rioja
Walkton - Vintage Chestnut

Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Thread (including reviews, purchases, pictures)

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