or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › **The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 482

post #7216 of 12420
Quote:
Originally Posted by BootSpell View Post
 

 

Interesting that you say Blake is useless.  I'm certainly no expert but have heard opinions where weather issues aside (water seeping in through the stitching holes), that Blake/Blake rapid is of no inferior construction than Goodyear.  As pointed out, Blake does offer the ability to make sleeker looking footwear.

 

Could you expand on why you think Blake is "useless"?

 

The Blake stitch is definitely inferior to a welted shoe for the reasons you just mentioned.  Essentially, you have a shoe that bears all the problems I described in my post from earlier today when Munky asked about cemented shoes.  The only difference being that the stitching will prevent the sole from falling off over time.  However, the rest of the construction between a Blake and a cemented shoe are much the same.  When the sole is taken off, there isn't anything holding the shoe together.   This can open up a real can of worms when repairing a shoe.  

 

A Blake/Rapid, however, is probably near equal with a Goodyear-welt in my opinion, but I would still go with Goodyear generally.  There are pros and cons to both, but I think the scale tips in the Goodyear-welted's favor.  Blake/Rapid shoes almost always use fiberboard insoles rather than good quality leather ones, unless you are buying the obscenely expensive ones (in which case I'd just put my money towards a hand-welted shoe).  With Blake/Rapid, you still have the annoying stitches inside the shoes that your toes can feel.  Also, if you tend to wear into the welt on your welted shoes and thus into the midsole on Blake/Rapid shoes, then when it comes to resoling, you really aren't saving the uppers from any more wear and tear during the recrafting process by going with Blake/Rapid.  In other words, if they are replacing the midsole on your shoes at each resoling, the uppers and insole will only withstand this for so many occurrences before it's integrity is shot, just like a Goodyear-welted shoe when replacing the welt.  However, with a Goodyear-welted shoe, only the upper is taking a beating during recrafting, while with Blake/Rapid, both the insole and upper are.  Finally, if you are looking for a flexible shoe, then a Blake/Rapid is a bit stiffer than a single sole Goodyear-welted one.  A Blake/Rapid is closer to a double soled Goodyear-welted shoe in regards to stiffness.  

post #7217 of 12420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post
 

Finally, if you are looking for a flexible shoe, then a Blake/Rapid is a bit stiffer than a single sole Goodyear-welted one.  A Blake/Rapid is closer to a double soled Goodyear-welted shoe in regards to stiffness.  

 

Awesome information as usual.

 

I will say I was under a different impression regarding stiffness; I thought Goodyear was always stiffer for some reason. Perhaps I'm remember Goodyear being compared to a non-Rapid Blake?

post #7218 of 12420
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentyman View Post
 

 

Awesome information as usual.

 

I will say I was under a different impression regarding stiffness; I thought Goodyear was always stiffer for some reason. Perhaps I'm remember Goodyear being compared to a non-Rapid Blake?

 

Yes, a Blake stitched shoe only has a single sole (frequently thin) stitched directly through the upper and insole.  A Blake/Rapid has a midsole that is around the thickness of a welt stitched on in the same way, and then a full outsole stitched to the midsole using a welt stitching machine.  Since the midsole is a full size sole, it contributes more to the rigidity of the shoe, whereas a welt is only around the perimeter.  Also, with the prevalence of fiberboard insoles that are used in Blake/Rapid shoes, that is a factor as well.  The leather insoles that are used in Goodyear-welting are less rigid than fiberboard ones.  

post #7219 of 12420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post
 

Also, with the prevalence of fiberboard insoles that are used in Blake/Rapid shoes, that is a factor as well.  The leather insoles that are used in Goodyear-welting are less rigid than fiberboard ones.  

 

Is there any technical reason they chose fiberboard over leather, or is it more just what those brands traditionally decide to pick?

post #7220 of 12420
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentyman View Post

Is there any technical reason they chose fiberboard over leather, or is it more just what those brands traditionally decide to pick?

Cost and availability. More cost.
post #7221 of 12420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

Yes, a Blake stitched shoe only has a single sole (frequently thin) stitched directly through the upper and insole.  A Blake/Rapid has a midsole that is around the thickness of a welt stitched on in the same way, and then a full outsole stitched to the midsole using a welt stitching machine.  Since the midsole is a full size sole, it contributes more to the rigidity of the shoe, whereas a welt is only around the perimeter.  Also, with the prevalence of fiberboard insoles that are used in Blake/Rapid shoes, that is a factor as well.  The leather insoles that are used in Goodyear-welting are less rigid than fiberboard ones.  

Blake machine constructed shoes has insole as well. So technically a single sole isn't correct.
post #7222 of 12420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post
 

 

Yes, a Blake stitched shoe only has a single sole (frequently thin) stitched directly through the upper and insole.  A Blake/Rapid has a midsole that is around the thickness of a welt stitched on in the same way, and then a full outsole stitched to the midsole using a welt stitching machine.  Since the midsole is a full size sole, it contributes more to the rigidity of the shoe, whereas a welt is only around the perimeter.  Also, with the prevalence of fiberboard insoles that are used in Blake/Rapid shoes, that is a factor as well.  The leather insoles that are used in Goodyear-welting are less rigid than fiberboard ones.

 

Thanks for the thorough explanation, MWS (as usual).  Knowing all that, I still enjoy my Italian Blake/Blake rapid boots, which may disintegrate well before my Aldens, AEs or C&Js, because I enjoy the variety and rugged/worn look some of them offer.  Having said that, I'll only buy them when they're well discounted from their overly inflated retail prices.

post #7223 of 12420

Always good info from MWS, but the bolded portion is why I say it is "useless." With a GY welted shoe, you can use the same welting to replace the outsole more times. With a Blake welting, you are always chewing through the uppers, and each resole takes away one of the shoe's 3-5 "lives." Goodyear just lasts longer than Blake IMO, and I find that frequently, many of the $1K+ Prada, Gucci, and Ferragamos are really not going to last anywhere near as long, or (unrelated) look nearly as good as a pair of $345 Allen Edmonds.

 

Does this clarify?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post
 

 

The Blake stitch is definitely inferior to a welted shoe for the reasons you just mentioned.  Essentially, you have a shoe that bears all the problems I described in my post from earlier today when Munky asked about cemented shoes.  The only difference being that the stitching will prevent the sole from falling off over time.  However, the rest of the construction between a Blake and a cemented shoe are much the same.  When the sole is taken off, there isn't anything holding the shoe together.   This can open up a real can of worms when repairing a shoe.  

 

A Blake/Rapid, however, is probably near equal with a Goodyear-welt in my opinion, but I would still go with Goodyear generally.  There are pros and cons to both, but I think the scale tips in the Goodyear-welted's favor.  Blake/Rapid shoes almost always use fiberboard insoles rather than good quality leather ones, unless you are buying the obscenely expensive ones (in which case I'd just put my money towards a hand-welted shoe).  With Blake/Rapid, you still have the annoying stitches inside the shoes that your toes can feel.  Also, if you tend to wear into the welt on your welted shoes and thus into the midsole on Blake/Rapid shoes, then when it comes to resoling, you really aren't saving the uppers from any more wear and tear during the recrafting process by going with Blake/Rapid.  In other words, if they are replacing the midsole on your shoes at each resoling, the uppers and insole will only withstand this for so many occurrences before it's integrity is shot, just like a Goodyear-welted shoe when replacing the welt.  However, with a Goodyear-welted shoe, only the upper is taking a beating during recrafting, while with Blake/Rapid, both the insole and upper are.  Finally, if you are looking for a flexible shoe, then a Blake/Rapid is a bit stiffer than a single sole Goodyear-welted one.  A Blake/Rapid is closer to a double soled Goodyear-welted shoe in regards to stiffness.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BootSpell View Post
 

 

Interesting that you say Blake is useless.  I'm certainly no expert but have heard opinions where weather issues aside (water seeping in through the stitching holes), that Blake/Blake rapid is of no inferior construction than Goodyear.  As pointed out, Blake does offer the ability to make sleeker looking footwear.

 

Could you expand on why you think Blake is "useless"?

post #7224 of 12420

Crat, is this your picture?

 

post #7225 of 12420
Quote:
Originally Posted by joiji View Post
 

Crat, is this your picture?

 

 

Hah, Google images search for "crat carmina" confirms it's from here:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crat View Post

Old stuff, new pics.

8195963096_bd2e4f6349_c.jpg

8194869475_b5da0aec5b_c.jpgadditional pics (Click to show)

8194870125_c9c0343d08_c.jpg

8194870381_66f19fb1a8_c.jpg

Crockett, Green, Corthay, Carmina.
Green boot.

More on the Corthays here.

More on the carminas here.

 

I don't know if I'm more impressed with the shoes, or the fact that you recognized them.

post #7226 of 12420

Impressed that the shoe mart stole those pictures...

post #7227 of 12420

Those cobblestones are hard to forget, we have little to nothing like that in Australia. :)

post #7228 of 12420
Thats so strange. I do have to commend Crat on his shoe care skills as well as location and photography skills. AMAZING!
post #7229 of 12420

He's got a very mean shine but the location is just too hard to beat.

post #7230 of 12420

I'd be worried about that incoming car...

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › **The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**