Evening Formal Suit Help Needed (Tuxedo)

Greetings: This is my 1st post in this forum and I have a million questions. I will separate my questions in different post as not to pollute the subject or confuse anyone.

Black Tie – I understand this to mean :

1.\tBlack formal jacket with satin, silk or grosgrain on the lapels, buttons and the pockets.

2.\tPockets must be

3.\tBest suggestion is a 1 button jacket (2 button is the 2nd best option)

4.\tDouble Breasted jackets can be worn but considered less formal

5.\tJacket must be peaked as a notched should not be worn (Shawl is acceptable but not as formal)

6.\tJacket should not have any vents

7.\tThe man should wear the dinner suit – the suit shouldn’t wear the man.

8.\tShirt should be a cotton lay-down collar with French cuff (wing is for “white tie”)

9.\tTrousers should have the same accent material as the lapel, pockets and buttons.

10.\tTrouser should be pleated and un-cuffed

11.\tA cumber bun or vest should be worn

12.\tWhite silk or satin pocket square

13.\tShoes should be patent leather slippers as 1st choice with patent leather oxfords (plain toe) being acceptable (black velvet slippers for the truly purist).

14.\tOnly a black tie (self tying) should be worn.

15.\tIt is acceptable to add a little color to the cumber bun but not the tie (I don’t like the idea of adding color – I like the idea of sticking to standard black).

16.\tBlack silk calf high stockings

Please correct anything above that you feel is incorrect?

Please educate me on vests with black tie attire?
I’m considering a vest that has a collar. It that a good choice? Can it be white or black? Should the entire vest be of the same fabric as the lapels of the jacket or just the lapels of the vest need to be on that same material?

This is the style of vest I’m considering:



The shirt - my understanding is that it is best not to have pleat in the shirt for “black tie” saving the pleats for “white tie” affair along with a wing-tip collar?
I’m attempting to get as close to the standard as reasonable possible without standing out like a sore thumb (but standing out because of my consistency with the standards).
Any and all help will be appreciated.


My apologies for being so long-winded!!

Regards,
K. Nezz

Welcome to the forum!

You should never wear a white waistcoat for black tie. It's always a black waistcoat or cumberbund. I can't recall seeing a vest with a collar. Can you provide a picture?

I don't think wing-tipped collars are really meant for white tie only. They're just fine with black tie, imo.

This should help you out:

http://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic...troduction.htm

Originally Posted by musicguy

Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum!

You should never wear a white waistcoat for black tie. It's always a black waistcoat or cumberbund. I can't recall seeing a vest with a collar. Can you provide a picture?

I don't think wing collars are really meant for white tie only. They're just fine with black tie, imo.

This should help you out:

http://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic...troduction.htm

Thank you for the response and the link to the guide.

I appreciate you pointing out that the waistcoat must be black for “black tie” formal dress.
I did read somewhere (I will see if I can find it again) that the “winged tip collar is reserved for “white tie” as it is considered more formal – but who am I… I’m the total novice here.

I did include a picture of the waistcoat in the original post (I can see it – hopefully you can also). Obviously, since you pointed out that is must not be white it will be black and matching the lapels of the evening jacket.

As for my other understandings are they correct?

Regards,
K. Nezz

1. Jacket and trousers may be midnight blue as well as black. Facings are black, usually in silk. Satin and grosgrain are different weaves. Satin and grosgrain are best in silk, but can also be made in a synthetic.

2. Pockets must be jetted, without flaps. Flapped pockets are okay because the flaps can usually be tucked in.

3. Best suggestion is a 1-button jacket. 2-button jackets are not appropriate. This of course applies to single-breasted jackets. 2-button double breasted jackets are more than appropriate.

4. Double Breasted jackets can be worn but considered less formal

5. Peaked lapels are most formal, but shawl lapels are equally acceptable. Notch lapel dinner jackets have been worn historically and are even less formal. As dinner jackets are higher up in formality than they used to be, notch lapels are less appropriate.

6. Jacket should not have any vents. If you must have vents, side vents may do.

7. The man should wear the dinner suit - the suit shouldn't wear the man.

8. Shirt should be a cotton lay-down collar with French cuff. "Wing-tipped" is actually for shoes. Wing collars are for white tie, and should always be detachable.

9. Trousers should have a stripe down each leg in the material of the lapel facing.

10. Cuffs should never be present on formal trousers. Pleats or no pleats is up to the discretion of the wearer. I prefer forward pleats myself.

11. A cummerbund or waistcoat should be worn, and the waistcoat should be low-cut (3 or 4 buttons) with lapels.

12. Pocket square can be silk, cotton, or linen. White is a good choice, but red also works.

13. Patent leather oxfords (plain toe) are most acceptable. Patent pumps are also appropriate, but that's something you might want to save for white tie. I'd save velvet slippers for wearing a smoking jacket at home.

14. Only a black bow tie (self-tying) should be worn. It should match the lapel facing.

15. It is acceptable to add a little color to the cummerbund but not the tie (I don't like the idea of adding color - I like the idea of sticking to standard black).

16. Black silk calf high stockings

The style of vest you chose is a great style, but it is only appropriate if you wear it with a detachable wing collar and pumps. If you want to wear a turn-down collar and patent oxfords, go with this style in black.

Pleated shirts are best with a turndown-collar and black tie. Pleats should never be worn with a wing collar or with white tie. A pique bib-front shirt, like that which is worn for white tie, is acceptable with a turn-down collar for black tie.

Originally Posted by knezz

Click to expand...

Thank you for the response and the link to the guide.

I appreciate you pointing out that the waistcoat must be black for “black tie” formal dress.
I did read somewhere (I will see if I can find it again) that the “winged tip collar is reserved for “white tie” as it is considered more formal – but who am I… I’m the total novice here.

I did include a picture of the waistcoat in the original post (I can see it – hopefully you can also). Obviously, since you pointed out that is must not be white it will be black and matching the lapels of the evening jacket.

As for my other understandings are they correct?

Regards,
K. Nezz

Yes, but I would keep the cumberbund black, to match the bow tie. I think having a different pattern bow tie (and cumberbund) is a good idea, but only when it's very tastefully done. This is almost never the case.

Ah, found what you were talking about.

See, A Tale of Two Collars:
http://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic...ents/Shirt.htm

Originally Posted by knezz

Click to expand...

5.\tJacket must be peaked as a notched should not be worn (Shawl is acceptable but not as formal)

8.\tShirt should be a cotton lay-down collar with French cuff (wing-tipped is for "white tie")

13.\tShoes should be patent leather slippers as 1st choice with patent leather oxfords (plain toe) being acceptable (black velvet slippers for the truly purist).

I'm considering a vest that has a collar. It that a good choice? Can it be white or black? Should the entire vest be of the same fabric as the lapels of the jacket or just the lapels of the vest need to be on that same material?


Dinner clothes (black tie) come in two varieties: formal and informal. Informal dinner dress is worn when eating at a restaurant, or for a party at home. The formal variety is worn in situations where white tie used to be worn eg balls, and other formal events. Here is a summary:

http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum...?showtopic=117

Winged collars can and arguably should be worn with the more formal variety. Velvet slippers are for informal dinner party dress at home. Step lapels aren't incorrect. They are just more informal. Shawl collars are considered just as formal for evening dress. In fact, the original dinner jacket probably had shawls collars. Shawl collars are even an acceptable variant for dress coats (evening tailcoats). There is a long tradition of wearing a white waistcoat with dinner dress dating back to the Edwardian era.

You can wear a white pique vest with Black tie( common in the 1920's as dressing up a semi formal look) Emily Post was quite fond of it. Obviously wearing it with "White Tie" is more preferable. You do have to wear a wing detachable collar with black tie if you choose to wear the white vest.