Replacing the insoles

I wanted to get a beat up pair of AEs or Aldens real cheap and send it to AE or Alden to get them refinished. But neither offers the option to replace the insoles. Is there a reason for this?

While I cannot speak for either of these outfits I will take a crack at answering your question from a maker's point of view:

Replacing an insole means re-lasting and entirely re-bottoming the shoe. This task represents roughly 80% of the total work involved in making a shoe from scratch. Add to that the fact that when the shoe was originally made, there was a lasting allowance that was trimmed off subsequent to inseaming. Trimmed off very closely. So relasting the shoe becomes problematic. Additionally, the linings and other "fittings" in an old and worn shoe may not be in the best condition and you have a recipe for disaster waiting for the maker who is so bold...or foolish.

If the maker does not have the original model of last that the shoe was made on...and some commercial makers "upgrade" or replace lasts on a regular basis...then the chances of a successful relast are even more suspect.

Many makers will take on the job but these tend to be the more high end shops that do bespoke work. To the extent that a company has mechanized any part of the process the chances that they will consider it worth their time to rebuild a used shoe diminish.

DFW...do you have a website?

Originally Posted by distinctive

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DFW...do you have a website?

I do have a website but I also created and run a discussion forum for bespoke boot and shoemakers. I tell you this by way of saying that because of that forum administrator background I am leery of promoting myself too blatantly here. I am not sure of how SF folks feel about it but over there we kind of consider it a little graceless. When I first came on Styleforum I included my website with my signature for about one post. Now it is accessible only under my public profile. Just click on my username to the left of this post and you'll see my website URL.

Thanks for your interest, BTW.

if you are already planning to buy used shoes, you are better off getting a lightly worn pair of used shoes, rather than getting a busted pair and recrafting.

new aldens $350
lightly used aldens with 98% of their life left: $160
beat aldens plus recrafting: $80 plus $100

Originally Posted by DWFII

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Replacing an insole means re-lasting and entirely re-bottoming the shoe. This task represents roughly 80% of the total work involved in making a shoe from scratch. Add to that the fact that when the shoe was originally made, there was a lasting allowance that was trimmed off subsequent to inseaming. Trimmed off very closely. So relasting the shoe becomes problematic.

So what does this tell us about recrafting services, whether the original manufacturer or an independent, that say they relast your shoes during the recrafting process. What are they, in fact, doing?

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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beat aldens plus recrafting: $80 plus $100

$135, I believe.

Relasting means that the shoe is placed on the original last as new soles are attached to the welt.

The neighborhhood repairman will put the shoes on a last too, a generic last of approximate size and shape.

The insole is akin to the chassis of a car. Everything flows from it and it cannot be lifted out, a new one slid in. Or so it has been explained to me when I have requested new insoles. A new insole generally comes with a new outsole and upper, in other words, a new shoe.

It's hard to say what they are doing...some do one thing, some another. If the shoe is being relasted by the original manufacturer, it may indeed go through many of the steps that it did when originally lasted. It may even get a new insole.


That said, it can be really hard to relast a shoe...properly relast it...in the absence of the original last.

For instance, as I'm sure you know, a good shoe will have a stiff vegetable tanned leather heel stiffener (sometimes called a "counter" ). This counter is sandwiched, wet or tempered, between the lining and the backpart of the shoe. In the process of lasting, it forms to the shape and size of the backpart of the last. When it dries it is hard.

That combined with the fact that patterns for shoes are often derived directly from the last leaves little surplus. If the original last had a relatively narrow heel seat and the repairman or "re-crafter" doesn't have a last that closely duplicates the width of the original heelseat, then the insole that is put in will be too wide for the shoe and it will be "patch and mend and get out the duct tape " to bring it all together.

And this applies to the toe stiffener, the length of the shoe/original insole...all the way down the line, in fact.

One other point to consider...the insole almost always shrinks in width and length during use. So, one cannot just pull the old insole and take a tracing.

Finally, I did not say it cannot be done. If you got that impression, please read my original remarks again. I myself have replaced insoles in some of my old boots...even lengthening the boot in the process and changing the toe character. What I said was, that most shops don't consider it worth their effort. As makers, we deal with new "stuff" (a wry reference to leather and findings) why would we want to fuss with old, dry, cracked and sometimes-beyond-recall stuff?

As an aside and not to flog a dead horse (love that emoticon) folks will do what they want, I'm sure, but I would advise against expecting too much in the way of comfort if buying used shoes. The insole on a really good hand-made shoe is traditionally made of shoulder leather and will readily conform to the bottom of the wearers foot--this is known as forming a "footbed." But in the course of wearing, the insole tends to dry out a little bit and lose some of that resiliency. The upshot is that a used shoe has a footbed that is formed to someone else's foot and can seldom be shifted. It's kind of like wearing someone else's underwear or using their toothbrush.

Originally Posted by DWFII

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folks will do what they want, I'm sure, but I would advise against expecting too much in the way of comfort if buying used shoes. The insole on a really good hand-made shoe is traditionally made of shoulder leather and will readily conform to the bottom of the wearers foot--this is known as forming a "footbed." But in the course of wearing, the insole tends to dry out a little bit and lose some of that resiliency. The upshot is that a used shoe has a footbed that is formed to someone else's foot and can seldom be shifted. It's kind of like wearing someone else's underwear or using their toothbrush.

I agree 100% with all of that, as someone who has some experience buying and wearing secondhand shoes, except for the last sentence, which is over the top. Underwear does not conform to your ass. The underwear and toothpaste comparisons are gratuitous, not helpful, and likely to re-ignite the old debate about whether or not one can have any dignity while wearing secondhand shoes. Sorry to be a scold, but a lot of posters buy and sell secondhand shoes, and conversations like this are going to get personal if seriously entertain such comparisons.

Generally, the footbed on a secondhand shoe will fit your foot acceptably -- perhaps not comfortably -- if they were originally worn -- and even "lightly worn" or "worn once" as they say on ebay -- by someone that the shoe fit properly. Unfortunately, there are a lot of lightly used shoes on the secondhand market that were worn ten times by two-hundred-pound men and then discarded because they did not fit well. If the shoe fits great, why would you dispose of it? So if the shape and last of the secondhand shoe fits you, the footbed will not. You may compress your own foot shape into the cork, if the shoe is not that old, but the old impression is not going to fluff up, ever, and the shoe is not going to be the same as a new one that only you have worn.

I think lightly-worn secondhand shoes are a good idea for people who (1) are on a tight budget and (2) do not need to wear the shoe much. It also helps to be generally tolerant of a mild discomfort that some people will not tolerate. And, (3), if you wear an orthotic anyway, the fact that the footbed is molded to another's shape is not going to be all that noticeable, except perhaps in the toes if your orthotic does not extend that far into the cone.

Seriously, what are the odds that a pair of secondhand shoes will fit comfortably if worn three times a week for six months? I would guess one in four or one in three. Maybe less.

Originally Posted by Dewey

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The underwear and toothpaste comparisons are gratuitous, not helpful, and likely to re-ignite the old debate about whether or not one can have any dignity while wearing secondhand shoes. Sorry to be a scold, but a lot of posters buy and sell secondhand shoes, and conversations like this are going to get personal if seriously entertain such comparisons.
My apologies, certainly, if I offended anyone. I could say it was just my wry humour coming to the fore but in truth, there's more to it. When I was lots younger and before I started making shoes, I picked up a "lightly worn," "pre-owned" pair of shoes. But that's not all I picked up...I picked up a nail fungus that is with me to this day despite repeated rounds of medication. You will forgive me if I my first impulse is to err on the side of caution.