Legal advise - item damaged during alteration

TCN · Oct 10, 2007

Those of you that advise there's nothing without a writing . . . what legal theory is this based on?

While a writing (in our man Friday's interest) would certainly make things easier, why are we throwing our hands up without one?

Minkous · Oct 10, 2007

If taking the matter to the courts is not an option or you simply dont wish to go that route. Recommend to him that he either pays for your trouble or you wish to report him to the better business beaurea. I know my parents have used the better business beaurea as a form of leverage in certain cases.

HomerJ · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by Minkous

If taking the matter to the courts is not an option or you simply dont wish to go that route. Recommend to him that he either pays for your trouble or you wish to report him to the better business beaurea. I know my parents have used the better business beaurea as a form of leverage in certain cases.

Bureau. Sorry but you butchered it twice

I sympathize with you OP. That would've been a pretty cool ass bracelet.. I wouldn't pay this schmo.

LabelKing · Oct 10, 2007

There are people who buy old tortoise shell items to turn them into things like guitar picks. I am not a fan.

In fact, I do not condone turning things into other things that they were never intended to be, especially with luxury exotic-skinned goods.

appolyon · Oct 10, 2007

best thing to do is sit the guy down, try not to choke him, and explain to him what your expectations were and that the work that has been produced is sub par

at this point it would also be good to have something there as an example of what the workmanship you were expecting would look like, and ask whether there is scope for the piece to be fixed and after that you can negotiate on price...

what I wouldn't do is walk straight in there and starting talking about legal action and compensation as it will only put him on the back foot and less likely to work with you towards a solution

DocHolliday · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by stilmacher

The belt was a crocodile Collier du Chien type. It would fit a 72 waist(!), hence it might have been difficult to sell on eBay and my girlfriend loves the Collier du Chien bracelets. After assessing the possibilities I thought it would be a smart idea to have it turned into two bracelets, once Collier du Chien and one plain crocodile.

How big are the bracelets, and how big are the remains? Seems like a lot of belt to make two bracelets. Is there not enough left for a second attempt?

tonylumpkin · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by appolyon

... it would also be good to have something there as an example of what the workmanship you were expecting would look like...

Ideally, this is how you should have approached him when looking to have the work done. Without something specific as an example of what you were looking to have him produce, it is merely his word against yours as to whether he produced what you asked for. As to the quality of the work...unless there are obvious gaps or frayed edges or the like...it will be difficult to prove that it is substandard. Number of stitches per inch may not mean much to a local magistrate...even a European one.

xchen · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

How big are the bracelets, and how big are the remains? Seems like a lot of belt to make two bracelets. Is there not enough left for a second attempt?

That's what I am thinking. He said it's a size 72 belt. Seems to me like there would be a hell of a lot left over to give it a second attempt.

Joel_Cairo · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by LabelKing

There are people who buy old tortoise shell items to turn them into things like guitar picks. I am not a fan.

In fact, I do not condone turning things into other things that they were never intended to be, especially with luxury exotic-skinned goods.

can I ask why not? Seems a pretty arbitrary position to take... like "I do not condone hemming trousers" almost.

Holdfast · Oct 10, 2007

I can see where LabelKing is coming from on this - it's a slight breach of Ruskin's Lamp of Memory, to take an architectural analogy. In this case, I don't think I'd agree. I have more sympathy with the tortoiseshell example he used because there's an age aspect there - the products there emanate from another era before restrictions were put in place and so I feel it's appropriate to preserve them in their original design. But this is a modern item, being reworked into another modern item, so I can't feel any sort of aesthetic need to preserve the original shape and form.

LabelKing · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by Joel_Cairo

can I ask why not? Seems a pretty arbitrary position to take... like "I do not condone hemming trousers" almost.

Hemming trousers is a perfectly natural thing to do whereas going about and literally destroying an item for another purpose is not "natural".

For example, I also have a strict originality policy for old buildings and their interiors. I simply don't understand how someone can preserve the exterior and than do some cheap shoddy interior "overhaul" on the original, usually much more attractive interior.

It seems a shame to destroy the original craftsmanship for the substitution of probably inferior work.

mr monty · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by LabelKing

There are people who buy old tortoise shell items to turn them into things like guitar picks. I am not a fan.

In fact, I do not condone turning things into other things that they were never intended to be, especially with luxury exotic-skinned goods.

Oh! Like cows were intended to be shoes?

Joel_Cairo · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by LabelKing

It seems a shame to destroy the original craftsmanship for the substitution of probably inferior work.

Ok, that makes sense to me.

But, for the sake of argument, what if you know with 100% certainty that the second time around, the craftsmanship will be superior? Would you object to, say, a visionary sculptor using shopping-carts as a raw material? I guess my question is where you draw the line. Is this an absolutist "preservation of anything that has been designed and produced in the past" principle?

appolyon · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by mr monty

Oh! Like cows were intended to be shoes?

I agree with Holdfast, as the belt is not an 'old world' item then the re-making of it is fine ...

Joel_Cairo · Oct 10, 2007

Originally Posted by mr monty

Oh! Like cows were intended to be shoes?

This is a way pithier version of the basic question I rendered in a long, unweildy post above. I salute you Monty

Legal advise - item damaged during alteration

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