Dry cleaning dilemna: Valet Service Cleaners didn't deliver my shirt

Bummer. I'm sure it must be frustrating.
That said, I see it pretty much the same way as Tarmac. If you really want to analyze it, I think it comes down the following. You have a witness -- the delivery guy -- who states that he specifically remembers dropping it off. You have no evidence to the contrary. You have apparently unfettered access to this general closet by any number of people in your office. You have no real basis for contending that every single one of these people is inherently more trustworthy or honest than the delivery guy. In my experience at several law firms, there are always some people who have no compunction about stealing other people's food out of the refrigerator -- much less an expensive shirt.

If I'm the trier of fact, you lose. If you've agreed to a service that makes a general delivery of everyone's clothes to a collective closest, in my judgment the risk is all yours once the shirt ends up in that closet. The only available evidence places the shirt in that closet.

I'd work out something reasonable with the dry cleaner, or in the alternative (or maybe either way) stop using them. And I'd certainly stop having my $185 shirts left in a general delivery closet.

Originally Posted by TCN

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Let me get this straight, through no fault of yours, a fully funded and insured business lost your brand new shirt, and now you're going to pay half of its replacement cost?

Teddie,

Write the cleaners a letter, enclose a copy of the complaint (plead negligence, consumer protection act, and maybe even breach of contract depending on your arrangements). Tell them that you've been happy with their service up until this, and as long as they freaking man up and take some responsibility (like any business should) for their customer's items, you will continue to use their service, and they should make back their money soon. Perhaps also offer to accept free cleaning as compensation (NO LESS than the price of the shirt). Give them seven days to accept your terms, and let them know that if they don't, you will file and ask them to put their insurance carrier on notice.

It's this sort of response that makes me want to tell people at cocktail parties that I do telemarketing or sell cigarettes to children or something.

Oh please.

He asked for our help and advice, not for our moral judgments.

I would be very interested in hearing what was so horrible about my response, recommended action, etc. Any MRPC violations there?

Is there something wrong with appealing to the cleaner's business sensibilities?

Originally Posted by TCN

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What color is the sky in this magical world of yours where the dry cleaners can do no wrong?

they can certainly do wrong, but I just don't think it's in their interest. so its far less likely. compare that to a car mechanic (or a lawyer OUCH), where it is definitely in their interest to do wrong by overbilling you. car mechanics constantly have that in the back of their minds "if I exaggerate I can make another $60 for the alternator".

I don't like taking my clothes to the cleaners. I don't do it unless absolutely necessary. I machine wash my shirts in an ancient apartment laundromat (doesn't even have a "delicate" setting) and hand iron them.

But if I did take it to the cleaners, I understand the risk. And I would never do any kind of blind drop off/pick up service. I do feel for those of you that wear pressed shirts and suits 5x a week but when you are working with that much volume and inexactness, there is a risk there..

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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Bummer. I'm sure it must be frustrating.
That said, I see it pretty much the same way as Tarmac. If you really want to analyze it, I think it comes down the following. You have a witness -- the delivery guy -- who states that he specifically remembers dropping it off. You have no evidence to the contrary. You have apparently unfettered access to this general closet by any number of people in your office. You have no real basis for contending that every single one of these people is inherently more trustworthy or honest than the delivery guy. In my experience at several law firms, there are always some people who have no compunction about stealing other people's food out of the refrigerator -- much less an expensive shirt.

If I'm the trier of fact, you lose. If you've agreed to a service that makes a general delivery of everyone's clothes to a collective closest, in my judgment the risk is all yours once the shirt ends up in that closet. The only available evidence places the shirt in that closet.

I'd work out something reasonable with the dry cleaner, or in the alternative (or maybe either way) stop using them. And I'd certainly stop having my $185 shirts left in a general delivery closet.


Out of curiousity, when you act as trier of fact, do you ignore the bias of witnesses as well?

Would the fact that the witness who claims to have dropped off the shirt works for the Defendant figure in to the equation?

What about how much time transpired between the alleged drop-off and our man here checking the closet? What about the cleaner's system for ensuring that what they remember dropping off actually was dropped off? Has anything like this happened before?

Apparently, this closet that a few people access for cleaning leaks like a sieve in comparison to the airtight and perfect ship that the cleaners must run.

Originally Posted by TCN

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Oh please.

He asked for our help and advice, not for our moral judgments.

I would be very interested in hearing what was so horrible about my response, recommended action, etc. Any MRPC violations there?

Is there something wrong with appealing to the cleaner's business sensibilities?

Yes, and my advice is that he try to work out a reasonable solution and not waste more energy and resources being obstreperous than it could possibly be worth. My advice is that he also accept some responsbility for a situation that he made at least some contribution to (although someone else obviously bears primary responsibility).

The problems with the response you suggest are severalfold. First, as I mentioned, it's excessive and bullying. It also has the potential of contributing to the serious problem our society has with our courts being completely swamped with petty bullshit, taking away resources that should be devoted to resolving important disputes. Also, as I pointed out in another post, the merits of such a suit would be dubious at best. There is no evidence the cleaners lost his shirt. Unless I missed something in my quick read, it's at least as likely that somebody in his office grabbed the shirt out of the closet, either intentionally or accidentally. Given this constellation of factors, threatening and/or filing a lawsuit over the loss of a single $185 suit (and as I said, I certainly understand that this would be a frustrating experience) would be petty, wastefuly, and if you'll forgive the use of legalese, kind of dickish.

Really, as trier of fact I lose?

Facts are, I dropped off shirt. he acknowledges picking it up. It's not delivered. If really I need to do discovery here, and if he can identity for me through invoices who had their shirts laundered during that period, I will get get them to declare they did not inadvertently pick up my blue shirt with white stripes. Access to our floors are more secure than not. I think it is more than likely he f'd and lost it somewhere than someone sneaking up and grabbing my shirt. Again, no one knew it was an "expensive" shirt and like he said, no one has had problems like this before - so you mean to tell me you think it is likely that the one time there is theft, it happens to be my one shirt, out of all the other **** that can be potentially pilfered at this office? A shirt that might not fit!? Really, who does that? Hmm...that's a nice shirt, I will take it, although it might not fit. And the window for that happening was limited. Few hours at best. There were no thefts reported below, and low and behold, in that few hour window, some random person picked it out?

There is obviously a limit as to what I am going to do to pursue this. Ultimately, if jack says he ain't going to pay, then he's not going to pay, and I'm not really going to sue him since the filing fee is probably half the cost of my shirt. I just think I have more than a leg to stand on. And I value everyone's input here. The only thing I don't agree with is me bearing the risk, legally, or even from a business standpoint. Practically, yes, as this case illustrates, there is a slight risk.

I'm thinking of telling him look, you reimburse me the cost of the shirt as it is the right thing to do from a business standpoint. And if it resurfaces by someone at the office, I will return double that. Now if he's motivated, he can offer the $185 to people here at the office as a "reward" and he can get his money back. If the shirt resurfaces because he finds it somewhere else (cleaners or other client's site), then he's the one out of luck.

Forget the time I spend typing here. It's a hobby, and I'm obviously not billing for my time. It's something I type up quickly when I want to take a break from reading mind numbing depo transcripts. Just like many of you here take time to read and write about what you care about. This is something I do care about, so yah, you could say I could be billing for this time. But I could also be billing instead of sleeping or watching TV.

Originally Posted by TCN

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Out of curiousity, when you act as trier of fact, do you ignore the bias of witnesses as well?

Would the fact that the witness who claims to have dropped off the shirt works for the Defendant figure in to the equation?

What about how much time transpired between the alleged drop-off and our man here checking the closet? What about the cleaner's system for ensuring that what they remember dropping off actually was dropped off? Has anything like this happened before?

Apparently, this closet that a few people access for cleaning leaks like a sieve in comparison to the airtight and perfect ship that the cleaners must run.

Potential biases of witnesses are always relevant. Which, of course, is why one must take with a healthy dose of salt the denials issued by all the other people in teddieriley's office. If one of them stole the shirt, how likely is it that they would admit to it?

I admit to reading teddie's posts rather quickly, but what basis do you have for suggesting that "a few people" have access to the closet? I take it from teddie's reference to an "embarrassing firm-wide email" (I'm not sure what would be embarrassing about it, but that's beside the point) that we're talking about a fairly large office.

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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Yes, and my advice is that he try to work out a reasonable solution and not waste more energy and resources being obstreperous than it could possibly be worth. My advice is that he also accept some responsbility for a situation that he made at least some contribution to (although someone else obviously bears primary responsibility).

The problems with the response you suggest are severalfold. First, as I mentioned, it's excessive and bullying. It also has the potential of contributing to the serious problem our society has with our courts being completely swamped with petty bullshit, taking away resources that should be devoted to resolving important disputes. Also, as I pointed out in another post, the merits of such a suit would be dubious at best. There is no evidence the cleaners lost his shirt. Unless I missed something in my quick read, it's at least as likely that somebody in his office grabbed the shirt out of the closet, either intentionally or accidentally. Given this constellation of factors, threatening and/or filing a lawsuit over the loss of a single $185 suit (and as I said, I certainly understand that this would be a frustrating experience) would be petty, wastefuly, and if you'll forgive the use of legalese, kind of dickish.


I guess I have an issue with dismissing something that doesn't happen to be a multi-million dollar dispute as not important enough.

I believe my suggestions were all pre-suit were they not?

We are well beyond wasting time here, for Chrisakes, we're all on a clothing forum posting away, I think we can dismiss with the "efficiency" and "time usage" arguments from here on can't we?

Do you really think if he doesn't warn the business that he takes this seriously, that they will do anything more (especially given that they have scoffed at his receipt, the price, etc.)?

Originally Posted by teddieriley

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Really, as trier of fact I lose?

Facts are, I dropped off shirt. he acknowledges picking it up. It's not delivered. If really I need to do discovery here, and if he can identity for me through invoices who had their shirts laundered during that period, I will get get them to declare they did not inadvertently pick up my blue shirt with white stripes. Access to our floors are more secure than not. I think it is more than likely he f'd and lost it somewhere than someone sneaking up and grabbing my shirt. Again, no one knew it was an "expensive" shirt and like he said, no one has had problems like this before - so you mean to tell me you think it is likely that the one time there is theft, it happens to be my one shirt, out of all the other **** that can be potentially pilfered at this office? A shirt that might not fit!? Really, who does that? Hmm...that's a nice shirt, I will take it, although it might not fit. And the window for that happening was limited. Few hours at best. So no thefts reported before, low and behold, in that few hour window, some random person picked it out.

I'm obviously not billing for my time. It's something I type up quickly when I want to take a break from reading mind numbing depo transcripts. Just like many of you here take time to read and write about what you care about. This is something I do care about, so yah, you could say I could be billing for this time. But I could also be billing instead of sleeping or watching TV.

I assumed that your posting meant you wanted to know people's reactions. That's my read on it. If I'm the trier of fact, you lose. I understand the arguments you are making, but I don't find them convincing. I'm not saying it's indisputable that the cleaners are telling the truth. I'm just telling you how I read the preponderance of the evidence. If you find my perspective unconvincing, by all means ignore it.
I'm genuinely sorry your shirt has disappeared, but whether I think you should threaten or file a lawsuit, or whether I think you'd be likely to win such a suit, are separate issues.

Originally Posted by TCN

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I guess I have an issue with dismissing something that doesn't happen to be a multi-million dollar dispute as not important enough.

I believe my suggestions were all pre-suit were they not?

We are well beyond wasting time here, for Chrisakes, we're all on a clothing forum posting away, I think we can dismiss with the "efficiency" and "time usage" arguments from here on can't we?

Do you really think if he doesn't warn the business that he takes this seriously, that they will do anything more (especially given that they have scoffed at his receipt, the price, etc.)?

There is a bit more of a gap than you're acknowledging between suing over a shirt lost in debatable circumstances and saying that anything that isn't a multi-million dollar dispute isn't important.

Yes, your suggestions were pre-lawsuit. I happen to think that -- for lawyers in particular -- threatening litigation, sending draft complaints, etc. in such circumstances -- is a rather boorish and anti-social way to conduct oneself. Just my take on it, obviously. The world around us is full of evidence that many other lawyers see things differently.

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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I assumed that your posting meant you wanted to know people's reactions. That's my read on it. If I'm the trier of fact, you lose. I understand the arguments you are making, but I don't find them convincing. I'm not saying it's indisputable that the cleaners are telling the truth. I'm just telling you how I read the preponderance of the evidence. If you find my perspective unconvincing, by all means ignore it.
I'm genuinely sorry your shirt has disappeared, but whether I think you should threaten or file a lawsuit, or whether I think you'd be likely to win such a suit, are separate issues.


So I gather you wouldn't take it on contingency? ;-)

Originally Posted by TCN

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So I gather you wouldn't take it on contingency? ;-)


For a shirt, no way. Now if they'd lost his pants, then we'd be talking. Ka-ching!

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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There is a bit more of a gap than you're acknowledging between suing over a shirt lost in debatable circumstances and saying that anything that isn't a multi-million dollar dispute isn't important.

Yes, your suggestions were pre-lawsuit. I happen to think that -- for lawyers in particular -- threatening litigation, sending draft complaints, etc. in such circumstances -- is a rather boorish and anti-social way to conduct oneself. Just my take on it, obviously. The world around us is full of evidence that many other lawyers see things differently.


You make an interesting point, and let me answer by way of a brief anecdote.

A friend of mine informed me today via e-mail discussion that his wife had had a particularly valuable item destroyed in transit by UPS. The item was insured, and he was writing a claim letter (or some such) to UPS to recoup the insurance. He also stated that if UPS didn't pay the value of the item (up to the insurance amount purchased - at an additional cost) that he would be turning this over to the family attorney.

I wrote back telling him to just contact the lawyer. He responded with a diatribe about being too quick to resort to bullying tactics. I informed him that UPS denies all claims based on damage, it's corporate policy, and that they were the ones bullying him at this point.

My point with this is that while I loathe litigation (I have filed one personal lawsuit in my life - dry cleaning btw), I recognize that in a competitive business atmosphere, the instance of businesses that "do the right thing" grows scarce, and sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Afford the business the chance to make things right, if that doesn't work, take the next step.

FWIW, if a coworker ends up discovering that they took the shirt, I think Teddie should pay back his cleaners settlement with interest. ;-)

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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For a shirt, no way. Now if they'd lost his pants, then we'd be talking. Ka-ching!


I know a guy in DC who says he can get him $34 Million for the shirt.