Black Suits

etl · May 14, 2007

ok. But what did you mean by Fashion v. Art?

LabelKing · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by E. Tage Larsen

ok. But what did you mean by Fashion v. Art?
Some people like to make the assertion that Fashion can be Art which I disagree with. Fashion is an inherently useful thing whereas Art has no practical purpose.

Jared · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by Fuuma

The second one, shared by most fashion designers (Thom Browne is certainly a part of this community) is a modern view in the loosest sense of the word, essentially a legacy of "modern" art where, while there may be multiple themes being tackled by the work, what is being presented is in large part about art itself. So, to use a simple example that is almost always used to explain "modern" art, a painter wanting to talk about Painting and Art might abolish perspective to bring attention to its importance. This might lead you to a renewed appreciation for the old masters like Titian and a gateway to the modern artist's approach. Modern art is obviously an acquired taste where knowledge and interest in the subject at hand can greatly enhances your enjoyment of what you're looking at. An artist process and his body of work become of great importance in decoding his message and this is an investment that most people might not be willing to make.
Are you sure you're not talking about postmodern art?* Thom Browne's runway work is probably as close to postmodern as any designer I can think of. (Determining whether something is postmodern or not is a nearly impossible task.) Although William Gibson thinks that Tommy Hilfiger is so derivative that it could probably be postmodern if he added irony or play. * I don't read General Chat, but I suspect "postmodern" is one of those words that sets people off. Which makes it appropriate for this thread.

LabelKing · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by Jared

Are you sure you're not talking about postmodern art?* Thom Browne's runway work is probably as close to postmodern as any designer I can think of. (Determining whether something is postmodern or not is a nearly impossible task.) Although William Gibson thinks that Tommy Hilfiger is so derivative that it could probably be postmodern if he added irony or play.

* I don't read General Chat, but I suspect "postmodern" is one of those words that sets people off. Which makes it appropriate for this thread. :laugh:

More like the CE.

j · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by Fuuma

There is; what you’re seeing is two views of dressing that constantly clash. The first is an essentially universalist view of, in this case, suiting (the men’s forum mainstream view) where certain characteristics are to be diminished or put forward to attain an idealized appearance that projects certain archetypical male qualities. It is rather prescriptive to say the least and focused on the practical side and doing things “the right way”.

The second one, shared by most fashion designers (Thom Browne is certainly a part of this community) is a modern view in the loosest sense of the word, essentially a legacy of “modern” art where, while there may be multiple themes being tackled by the work, what is being presented is in large part about art itself. So, to use a simple example that is almost always used to explain “modern” art, a painter wanting to talk about Painting and Art might abolish perspective to bring attention to its importance. This might lead you to a renewed appreciation for the old masters like Titian and a gateway to the modern artist’s approach. Modern art is obviously an acquired taste where knowledge and interest in the subject at hand can greatly enhances your enjoyment of what you’re looking at. An artist process and his body of work become of great importance in decoding his message and this is an investment that most people might not be willing to make.
I suspect you've read this, but I'm nearly through this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Suits-Evol...489442-2294557

and it talks a lot about this... kind of interesting especially in the context of our MC forum and the clashes that appear there.

LabelKing · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by j

I suspect you've read this, but I'm nearly through this book: http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Suits-Evol...489442-2294557 and it talks a lot about this... kind of interesting especially in the context of our MC forum and the clashes that appear there.
I've never read that, but I've always felt it was interesting how until the '70s, Chic was never considered Sexy. It was either one or the other--they never mixed. If, indeed, anything was Chic, Sex was usually the most distant thought.

Manton · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by LabelKing

such as what Kant postulated in his Critique of Pure Judgement
Usually you can be counted on at least to get titles right. There is no Critique of Pure Judgement. There is the Critique of Pure Reason, the Critique of Practical Reason, and the Critique of Judgement.

--the Sublime--

What you wrote -- to the extent that anyone can make head or tail of it -- is not even close to what Kant meant by the sublime.

etl · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by LabelKing

Some people like to make the assertion that Fashion can be Art which I disagree with.

Fashion is an inherently useful thing whereas Art has no practical purpose.

I understand the argument around the use value in fine art. However the relationship between fine art to design is comparable to fashion to clothing. i take little comfort in nearly all the trends in high culture at present so the distinction of one over the other struck me as tenuous.

Manton · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by j

I suspect you've read this, but I'm nearly through this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Suits-Evol...489442-2294557

and it talks a lot about this... kind of interesting especially in the context of our MC forum and the clashes that appear there.

I really, really disliked this book.

Manton · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by E. Tage Larsen

Modern art very much tried to differentiate itself from tradition, specifically the Ã‰cole des Beaux-Arts.

Can I be so bold as to attempt to save you from a lot of frustration and help you skip to the end point? Except when it comes to cigarette brands, obscure fashion designers, interior design, and certain classic car models, he has no idea what he is talking about. If caught in an obvious error, he piles up excuses and explanations like cordwood, each more preposterous, less responsive, and more incomprehensible than the prior.

Get Smart · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by Manton

I really, really disliked this book.

you're just pissed she has a more provacative title than just "The Suit"

it's what I thought as well after reading your book, that it needed more Sex

Manton · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by Get Smart

you're just pissed she has a more provacative title than just "The Suit"

it's what I thought as well after reading your book, that it needed more Sex

Her book had sex? I totally missed it.

Even worse (MUCH worse) than Sex and Suits was Seeing Through Clothes.

Ivan Kipling · May 14, 2007

Label King . . . do you find it at all important that some of the world's great museums, have displayed Yves Saint Laurent's haute couture during major exhibitions? I must add that the work of Versace has been displayed at New York's Metropolitan, too. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...2144005230.jpg What about the fact that useful articles (pottery, suits of armour, china, etc.,) are shown inside museums, as well?

Get Smart · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by Manton

Her book had sex? I totally missed it.

Even worse (MUCH worse) than Sex and Suits was Seeing Through Clothes.

maybe your next pressing of The Suit can have a section with "shoe Appreciation" photos, so as to bring the Sex

Manton · May 14, 2007

Originally Posted by Get Smart

maybe your next pressing of The Suit can have a section with "shoe Appreciation" photos, so as to bring the Sex

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