Questions on Corporate Hierarchy/Career Progression

Originally Posted by kxk

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I would join as an associate.
Really, 3-4 years at MBB would be good enough for VP/Director? So I'd be like 31, 32? Sounds pretty sweet. Like I said before, I couldn't find much resources that got into the specifics for post-MBA consulting--all I could find were for college grads.

I don't know how long it would take if I took the industry job--hence the concern about what level this "manager" job is at.

I think that's a best case scenario right there, not necessarily the norm. And the career progression I'm talking about is mostly for MBA students. I don't know if it's different for experienced hires.

A corporate role can be a pretty sweet gig or it can be a boring dead end. Should be pretty obvious up front which this is. And amazingly, working for a business in the right situation is really a great way to learn about that business.

Depends on the corporation. Can you give more details? I mean, at one of my previous employers, I was a manager at 23 and making about 100k, so the title doesn't mean much

Originally Posted by kxk

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I would join as an associate. Really, 3-4 years at MBB would be good enough for VP/Director? So I'd be like 31, 32? Sounds pretty sweet. Like I said before, I couldn't find much resources that got into the specifics for post-MBA consulting--all I could find were for college grads. I don't know how long it would take if I took the industry job--hence the concern about what level this "manager" job is at. As for your question: I suppose some people might find the salary difference appealing, at least for a couple years. Or not really know what industry is the one they want (one of my reasons). Could be allured by the brand name. And of course, the whole thing about accelerated career progression.
Depends on the company, but I think ~28 is when some people will be brought on as managers (assuming you get a promotion every 3 years and start @ 22 and don't go in for an MBA)

Originally Posted by yjeezle

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Depends on the company, but I think ~28 is when some people will be brought on as managers (assuming you get a promotion every 3 years and start @ 22 and don't go in for an MBA)
Sweet, sweet, thanks for the insight. So I'm just on track and not really missing out on much by letting this go. BTW, then do people really just stay on as "managers" without significant career progression for like 10-15 years, remaining managers into their early 40s?

Maybe the real question is what do you *want* to do?

Do you want to "manage" people? Especially at some large company, you might end up managing a big team of unmotivated idiots (the people who were not good enough to get promoted themselves) or you might manage a solid team (or recruit one yourself over a few years). Either way, you probably spend more time managing than doing other work.

At that level of consulting, you will be doing a lot more "work". If you have been in school forever and never really worked, it might be nice to get a few years experience before you start trying to manage others.

If it we me, I'd take the MBB job. Disclaimer, I work for one of their competitors on the rung right below MBB, so I'm a bit biased in that I already made the decision to go into consulting.

Here's the thing with consulting--you will learn more in a shorter period of time than you thought possible. The hours can be brutal (though typically not investment banker brutal), but you will get fantastic experience that you can leverage into a cushy industry job paying quite a bit more. The experience will set you far ahead of your peers.

Furthermore, it doesn't sound like you have any experience to help you succeed in the managerial position. While I'm sure theyd coach you etc, I'd want to have some experience before being asked to lead a team like that. In the consulting gig, you will get to learn what really makes a business tick, how to deliver work on a deadline, and how to run a team (or at the least how not to, which can also be valuable).

Once you do the consulting gig, particularly for MBB level, you will never hurt for nice job offers. Like I said, I'm working in the rung right below MBB, and I get at least 3 cold calls from recruiters a week. Not that that's how I'd find my next job--I'd simply talk to the network of any of the very senior managing director/executive vice presidents/c-levels that I've had the opportunity to work with over the years.

Now, you might just want something relaxing without a lot of pressure. But even so, given that you'd have no experience and would still be expected to deliver in the F100 job, I'd still take the consulting gig, suck it up for two years, and then lateral into an industry job. You'll be even further ahead of the pack, and will have some actual experience to back you up.

Originally Posted by aravenel

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I'd still take the consulting gig, suck it up for two years, and then lateral into an industry job. You'll be even further ahead of the pack, and will have some actual experience to back you up.

Thanks, that's the plan now. Just wanted to know at what level this "manager" gig was, to see if I'd be ahead of the curve at all. It seems that if 3 years analyst -> 3 years of assoc -> manager, then I'm not starting off ahead at all (granted, zero work experience and zero exposure to industry, but offset by irrelevant grad degree it seems). Much better to come out of consulting, I suppose.

Thanks for the opinions, all.


By the way, so middle management at bigcorp in late 20s at 100k is pretty typical, I presume? Why is there so much hubbub about "six figure salaries" and all the rage over accounting/pharmacy school when a middle management job such as this offers similar pay, better hours, and often less schooling (CPA requires accounting coursework, so if your undergrad didn't offer it, as mine did not, you have to go for MAcc)?

Originally Posted by kxk

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By the way, so middle management at bigcorp in late 20s at 100k is pretty typical, I presume? Why is there so much hubbub about "six figure salaries" and all the rage over accounting/pharmacy school when a middle management job such as this offers similar pay, better hours, and often less schooling (CPA requires accounting coursework, so if your undergrad didn't offer it, as mine did not, you have to go for MAcc)?
Well, *you* can get 100k in your late 20s at bigcorp. But you can also get a job at a high level consultancy. I don't know the specifics but I would bet that someone who started at BCG straight out of undergrad would be able to clear 100k with bonus in their third year if they did well. The people who are amazed by 100k salaries for a 29 year old (especially in a major market) are probably not the people who would ever get a job in high-end consulting. Heck, if I were to work 60 hour weeks (which I do not do most of the time at my firm), I would clear 100k before bonus and I have only been here a year and a half (we pay salary+OT and I got a fast promotion) but I know a lot of recent graduates whose best option paid 36k.

in an argument against consulting:

i know a lot of lower level exec's that came on board from MBB and they didn't perform (it can happen)

these people stay on board for about 3 years and if they don't find somethign else to do they will get fired (i work for a global 100 firm). sometimes if they truly don't have any other marketable skills, then they will go home at the age of 36 (yes, I have seen this happen) and not find any other work.

Originally Posted by otc

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I know a lot of recent graduates whose best option paid 36k.

Hi, have we met?

Originally Posted by yjeezle

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in an argument against consulting:

i know a lot of lower level exec's that came on board from MBB and they didn't perform (it can happen)

these people stay on board for about 3 years and if they don't find somethign else to do they will get fired (i work for a global 100 firm). sometimes if they truly don't have any other marketable skills, then they will go home at the age of 36 (yes, I have seen this happen) and not find any other work.

+1 Have seen plenty of MBB, sub-MBB and whatever else consultants who do not know jack **** about business. Making stuff up to put in decks is a long way from running a company.

Fair enough, I have too. But the point is, he will get experience at MBB that he wont have at the other job--at the managerial job, he would be expected to hit the ground running and manage that team to results, something that he will be better prepared for after MBB. Furthermore, he'll get more experience in the upper-level machinations of a Fortune 1000 company than he would in 10 years of industry. He'll also have the start of a resume that will put him right past the middle management doldrums, and be paid better as well. Not a bad tradeoff.

There are idiots in any line of business. I'd wager that he'll work with less of them (ok, maybe not, but at least he'll learn more) at MBB than the other job.

As for salary, since he's coming in with a masters and thus likely isn't at the analyst level, he'll almost certainly clear $100k in his first year.

No question the corporate world is full of idiots, much more so than any halfway respectable professional services firm. From my plebeian perspective, that makes it much easier to stand out. Also I still doubt that managing a consulting team in any way prepares you for running an operating business.

Yeah, but what's your point? Most ppl, at the engagement manager level where they're running teams, would NEVER be tapped to run a business. You're talking at more of the associate partner or partner level folks who get poached for those jobs.