conservative business dress WAYWRN: An Experiment

Originally Posted by Manton

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I think ed is right but wrong. Yes, many of the squares here are not good. But there is virtually no ensemble that does not benefit from white linen, square fold.

some of my favorite looks in this threak (quar's wedding ensemble, your pics, greg's pics, trini, skinny goom's, among others) would lose nothing by removing the square and in many cases would gain, IMO. In the best outfits, in particular conservative business dress stuff, the shirt collar/tie and their relationship to the suiting is what makes the outfit really pop, for me. The square becomes a bit of a distraction. I've gone to wearing a white/cream square only when I wear my solid navy blazer, other than that, I pretty much never wear a square. I think the silk squares with all the crazy colors only take away from outfits. Also, too many patterned shirts in people's wardrobes. Stripes are one thing, but multi stripes, multi checks etc, unless very, very sedate, will only distract. Patterned suit,patterned shirt, patterned square, seen to often on this forum and almost always not good.

Originally Posted by edmorel

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some of my favorite looks in this threak (quar's wedding ensemble, your pics, greg's pics, trini, skinny goom's, among others) would lose nothing by removing the square and in many cases would gain, IMO. In the best outfits, in particular conservative business dress stuff, the shirt collar/tie and their relationship to the suiting is what makes the outfit really pop, for me. The square becomes a bit of a distraction. I've gone to wearing a white/cream square only when I wear my solid navy blazer, other than that, I pretty much never wear a square. I think the silk squares with all the crazy colors only take away from outfits. Also, too many patterned shirts in people's wardrobes. Stripes are one thing, but multi stripes, multi checks etc, unless very, very sedate, will only distract. Patterned suit,patterned shirt, patterned square, seen to often on this forum and almost always not good.

I disagree in two small ways. I think if you have a sedate outfit overall (solid suit, solid shirt, low key tie) a patterned square is nice. I think some of the problem you diagnose is caused not necessarily by patterned squares per se but by ugly or badly chosen squares. Another problem is the big poof that people use. You don't neet to show much.

I also maintain that there is no outfit that does not benefit from white linen.

Originally Posted by gdl203

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Explain to me why you like this tie.

Effective distraction from disparate pocket square.

Originally Posted by Manton

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Tie is a bit haremish but OK. Square is not great.

My square selection is admittedly limited. However, there's not space in my budget to expand at the moment. Happy to accept donations.

Originally Posted by gdl203

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Explain to me why you like this tie.

I don't expect to change anyone's minds or hope for anything more than total derision of my affinity for the John Comfort line of prints and paisleys…

Colors are more muted IRL, but that's a limitation of a cell phone shot in an artifical light setting.

Or this:

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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Effective distraction from disparate pocket square.

But see above re: limited square selection. Perhaps I'd be better without it at all a la SG.

Originally Posted by Manton

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I disagree in two small ways. I think if you have a sedate outfit overall (solid suit, solid shirt, low key tie) a patterned square is nice. I think some of the problem you diagnose is caused not necessarily by patterned squares per se but by ugly or badly chosen squares. Another problem is the big poof that people use. You don't neet to show much.

I also maintain that there is no outfit that does not benefit from white linen.

This makes me think of Ed's earlier point about gaudy squares. I have some that are pretty bright, but I think they can work in the right (usually summery) context. Not so much when I tried to pair the bright yellow with a donegal coat, even though there was yellow in the tie.

I think square gaudiness is usually the result of poor application and excessively effusive display.

Originally Posted by MBreinin

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here is an example of the good/bad that I was just talking about. I really like this shirt collar on Mike, the points are long enough and the spread wide, but not overly so. It frames his face/tie/suit lapels perfectly and it "tames" his wide shoulders a bit. On the bad sad, I would not wear the pin striped suit, striped shirt and that gorgeous, absolutely beautiful, magnificent, out of this world, kick ass, unlined striped 6 fold tie all in the same outfit. I know the patterns of different scales rule, but I think that most of the time, a patterned suit will be better served by a solid shirt. Also, here is an instance where I would prefer no square as the fit of the items is very good, and I feel the square distracts a bit from that.

BTW, what is the deal with people in this threak wearing these gunboats with their suits

Originally Posted by luftvier

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My square selection is admittedly limited. However, there's not space in my budget to expand at the moment. Happy to accept donations.

I have a number of ugly ties that I no longer wear but that's not much help to you.

Originally Posted by luftvier

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My square selection is admittedly limited. However, there's not space in my budget to expand at the moment. Happy to accept donations.

But see above re: limited square selection. Perhaps I'd be better without it at all a la SG.

Most of my favorites were bought for less than $10 shipped on eBay.

Originally Posted by edmorel

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BTW, what is the deal with people in this threak wearing these gunboats with their suits

It's where Naples and Trad connect.

Q.

Originally Posted by edmorel

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BTW, what is the deal with people in this threak wearing these gunboats with their suits

A.

Originally Posted by Manton

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It's where Naples and Trad connect.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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Most of my favorites were bought for less than $10 shipped on eBay.

I'll have to keep a look out.

P.S. Refolded square to look less stupid. A mild improvement.

Originally Posted by Manton

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I also maintain that there is no outfit that does not benefit from white linen.

Just like all tall men should have four outer pockets on their suit jackets, right?

Originally Posted by Manton

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there is virtually no ensemble that does not benefit from [1] white linen, [2] square fold.

I've written this before, but, just for me, yes to [1] and no to [2]. Though I virtually never use a white square, it will almost always work. Hence I keep a couple, along with other solid colors and a few paisleys, in my file cabinet. Here's today's combination as posted above and with a white square puffed.



And here are a couple of other possibilities when the sun is higher:

Originally Posted by edmorel

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Most people's looks would improve 10 fold if they wore better shirt collars and ditched their squares. These are two areas were most of the pics posted on this forum fail. People don't realize how important a shirt collar is to a suit, not just to the shirt. And most squares here are too gaudy.

Ed, what RTW shirtmakers would you recommend? i usually wear BD collars from Mercer/BB and my spread collars are lacking.

Originally Posted by MBreinin

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Mike, those sunglass frames don't look good on you. Oldog, I think I'd like this suit better without a square.

Today's suit. The shirt is from this batch (http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=227310)