The secret to success with women

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Originally Posted by flashback

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I have been involved in the PUA community for about 4 years now - before "the game" brought an insane amount of attention to it. Before that I definitely had low self-esteem & no confidence in myself when it came to women. I always settled for girls who were not as attractive as what I really wanted, because i felt like those were the only types of women I could get. Other than women, my life was pretty well together. I have a great family, and amazing friends. I have never been arrested, I don't have any kids or ex-wives. I had a good job that some would consider cool & interesting (graphic design). I was a social guy and I went out with my friends a lot - I was definitely in the bar scene and I enjoyed it. All-in-all I was very happy. Just not when it came to women. Like someone else said in this thread, the thought of even approaching a 300-pound woman in a bar gave me intense anxiety and fear. fast forward a few years to after I found the community - basically it injected a lot of self-confidence in me. I realized that I really was a catch and I just needed to put in a little bit of effort, put myself out there so that women could see what I had to offer. I started dating the women that I wanted to date, I was having the type of success that I once thought wasn't possible for me. I started out using some "canned" material, aka the lines & routines that critics tend to fixate on. However this was just something to get me started in conversation, something to get my foot in the door. Once I was up and going the conversation would lead to real things, spontaneous stuff - like I said before I had a good life and I was social so I had no problem carrying a real conversation with someone once I got past the initial approach. Before long most of my "routines & techniques" were just real anecdotes from my real-life, crafted to be funny & engaging, similar to how a comedian develops his material. People who learn about PUA's and the community always tend to see the worst side of it and think its a bunch of douchebag guys with nothing to offer running canned routines & slimey techniques on women. In fairness there ARE some dudes like that out there, maybe even the majority of guys - but there are a lot of great men who just need some help. I believe I was the type of guy that the community was made to help. Now I do not use any canned material or routines or techniques, I simply walk up to a woman if I feel like talking to her and say "Hi". Sometimes I will even say something like "I just had to come talk to you, I think you are so attractive". Basically violating PUA-logic by giving a compliment. Anyway, it doesn't matter, because I have gotten to the point where I'm confident enough to do that and if I get rejected I don't take it personally. I know that I'm a catch, I have an amazing life, and any woman that takes the time to get to know me will usually develop strong feelings for me. I have met both ends of the spectrum, the dudes who make me ashamed to be a part of the community, and guys who have multiple degrees from ivy league schools & who put me to shame in terms of personality. When used by the right person, this stuff is a godsend. In the hands of the wrong person, it can be a destructive weapon. Fortunately women have a pretty good instinct when it comes to spotting the genuine from the fake.
I've discovered the community before you have, I think.. It's has been nothing but blessing for me so far because I had TON of fun (time well wasted..) But, now I am feeling a bit of side effect of the game. I cannot seem to settle down and I am not very satisfied with women. I get bored easy and I tend to discard good quality that a fine woman offer! With my current GF, I am learning about having deeper relationship, understanding, being considerate, etc etc that PU materials do not touch on. I actually don't like PU materials anymore and they sound too dumb for me. I mean, let's say I was waiting for a train and some girl comes up to me and ask me, "Do you think this shirt make me look gay?" Well, I'll be saying, "What the hell is wrong this one!". One thing is true and that is, if a woman likes you, she makes sure that you know about it and it's up to a man to accept or reject. If a man has to force it then you better move on.

Originally Posted by JetBlast

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Freakin' awesome jb!

Originally Posted by Dakota rube

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Freakin' awesome jb!

For the good of the forvm.

Starters - it is very rare to see that attractive woman standing by herself...even if she is, it takes some plucking up of courage to march on over and introduce yourself. Cheeseball lines or not, we all know that to be true, and we have all felt it. A big part of what the PUA dudes teach is getting over that and teaching that 'she wont bite'. In that regard it is just a numbers game about plucking up the courage. You could make a point that we should all have learned that **** growing up, and you are probably right, but at the same time, we all know the feeling.

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That's the thing. They don't teach guys that girls don't bite. If that was the only thing they taught, guys wouldn't be learning the techniques and bullshit they teach. Think about it. If you knew girls didn't bite, would you dedicate a large part of your day worrying about the proper opener? Probably not.

More likely however she is there with 2-3 friends, and often with a male in the group. This is another dynamic - and it is totally a social situation that you are walking into cold - and again, these guys have developed their systems for dealing with that.

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They have a system that works no better than introducing yourself and saying hello.

As for the talking and listening - again - is there anyone who has NEVER hit the wall in a conversation with a woman?

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Guys that hit that wall do so because they are not sharing thir experiences and thoughts as freely as regular people do when they're metting eachother. It all boils down to fear. If guys didn't put so much pressure on themsleves to be slick, they'd have tons and tons of **** to talk about.

I remember first year at university in Australia sitting in the campus bar with a girl who I knew was into me and just finding myself with absolutely nothing to say. I am generally not particularly socially awkward, but I totally know the feeling. If Strauss et al have a bunch of topics that they know will get chicks chatting - and more importantly, and especially with Strauss - noting that self improvement and taking on stuff that makes you a more interesting person with more to say - helps someone out of that feeling I had in the Flinders Uni Tavern in 1994...then I am all for it

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I don't think Strauss et al are any better than regular guys. Their emphasis on mimicking jerk behaviors and attitudes is not something I'd recommend. I believe guys are better off if they just stop being such pussies and talk to women. I know it's not easy to drop pussified behaviors, but they have to confront them sooner or later. It's better to start now instead of waiting the 2 or 3 years necessary to be adequate at these methods.

Originally Posted by flashback

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People who learn about PUA's and the community always tend to see the worst side of it and think its a bunch of douchebag guys with nothing to offer running canned routines & slimey techniques on women. In fairness there ARE some dudes like that out there, maybe even the majority of guys - but there are a lot of great men who just need some help. I believe I was the type of guy that the community was made to help. Now I do not use any canned material or routines or techniques, I simply walk up to a woman if I feel like talking to her and say "Hi". Sometimes I will even say something like "I just had to come talk to you, I think you are so attractive". Basically violating PUA-logic by giving a compliment. Anyway, it doesn't matter, because I have gotten to the point where I'm confident enough to do that and if I get rejected I don't take it personally. I know that I'm a catch, I have an amazing life, and any woman that takes the time to get to know me will usually develop strong feelings for me. I have met both ends of the spectrum, the dudes who make me ashamed to be a part of the community, and guys who have multiple degrees from ivy league schools & who put me to shame in terms of personality. When used by the right person, this stuff is a godsend. In the hands of the wrong person, it can be a destructive weapon. Fortunately women have a pretty good instinct when it comes to spotting the genuine from the fake.

So why don't these great guys learn how to get out of their own way instead of learning some lines? It's easier to memorize a few lines here and there, than to actually develop the balls necessary to become someone attractive.

Originally Posted by flashback

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a bunch of ****

Originally Posted by JetBlast

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^

Originally Posted by paraiso

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So why don't these great guys learn how to get out of their own way instead of learning some lines? It's easier to memorize a few lines here and there, than to actually develop the balls necessary to become someone attractive.
why does it matter? Why do people get so hung-up on "lines"? I don't think it is easier to just magically develop the balls to be confident without actually going on the journey and using prepared material. For some guys, they are not as socially adept as others, and so the point of learning lines is for them to have a basis of conversation, because otherwise they are socially awkward and can't really "wing-it" with their own conversational topics. I don't know though, I don't really think it matters how you get there as long as you're a better man at the end of it. say what you will about guys like Mystery - I don't know if I can defend everything he does. I have never seen the tv show because anything on tv really bothers me. I can at least say in his defense that his motto is "leave the women better off than when you met her", which I think is a great philosophy.

Originally Posted by flashback

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why does it matter? Why do people get so hung-up on "lines"?

I don't think it is easier to just magically develop the balls to be confident without actually going on the journey and using prepared material. For some guys, they are not as socially adept as others, and so the point of learning lines is for them to have a basis of conversation, because otherwise they are socially awkward and can't really "wing-it" with their own conversational topics. I don't know though, I don't really think it matters how you get there as long as you're a better man at the end of it.

say what you will about guys like Mystery - I don't know if I can defend everything he does. I have never seen the tv show because anything on tv really bothers me. I can at least say in his defense that his motto is "leave the women better off than when you met her", which I think is a great philosophy.

dont make me barf. it seems like you guys go from 0 confidence, to trying to convince yourself how great you are. how many times have you said youre a catch?

The secret to success with women....

"Does this rag smell like chloroform to you"

Originally Posted by West24

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dont make me barf. it seems like you guys go from 0 confidence, to trying to convince yourself how great you are. how many times have you said youre a catch?
what the hell are you talking about?

Originally Posted by flashback

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what the hell are you talking about?

I think he's saying that it's a bit presumptuous for some guy to buy a book and form a little love posse and suddenly think that despite your lack of experience, you're god's gift to women. Chances are, if you needed to think this much about succeeding with women, and one actually does go out with you more than once, that she has left YOU better off than you were before, not the other way around.

Originally Posted by SField

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I think he's saying that it's a bit presumptuous for some guy to buy a book and form a little love posse and suddenly think that despite your lack of experience, you're god's gift to women. Chances are, if you needed to think this much about succeeding with women, and one actually does go out with you more than once, that she has left YOU better off than you were before, not the other way around.

Every time I read one of your posts, I like you more and more.

Originally Posted by JetBlast

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Every time I read one of your posts, I like you more and more.

What a touching gay moment.

Originally Posted by username79

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What a touching gay moment.

I don't think it would be construed as gay, so much as complimenting that someone actually knows what the hell they are talking about.