Dressing too well?

Originally Posted by Liberty Ship

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I don't see that you mention the "pocket thingy" in your descriptions. For what it's worth, I think you would have been fine if you had skipped the French cuffs, skipped the pocket thingies, and skipped the contrasting collars. As well (over) dressed as I am inclined to be, those three things tend to arouse suspicion in me, too. High quality is good. Flashy is not. I reserve French cuffs for the evening.


I agree. It sounds like the OP was very well dressed, but too well dressed to connect with the average person. I wear all of the things that he mentions plus sometimes collar bars, but for a court date (I am not a lawyer) I would skip all of the things you mention with the possible exception of a white 'pocket thingie' in a conservative fold - naw, you are probably right about that too. The first thing I would certainly skip is contrast collar shirts and I probably would not wear a vest either even though most of my suits are three piece.

I recently had to take a driving test due to an age related loss of vision in one eye. I live alone and not being able to drive would be very serious. I wanted to dress well enough to get some respect, but so well as to offend the folks working at the DMV.

I wore loafer, khakis, a checked shirt, and a knit tie and left my blazer in the back seat of my car. Maybe my dress did not make a bit of difference, but I think I did it right.

Cheers, Jim.

Being a trial attorney is part logical legal argument, part theater.

Any actor will tell you that an audience must connect with his character to really engage in a performance.

If you are unable to make that connection as a trial lawyer, then you're not living up to your full potential.

I personally see nothing wrong with a well-dressed atty. In fact, it'd be a refresher from the potato sack suits I see in court every day. That said, the juries I see here in criminal court are largely working class folk.

If you are all blinged out and exhude a G. Gekko aura, you might have issues with gaining a jury's trust. Especially if you are a defense atty.

Part of it though, is your attitude. There is an excellent private defense atty here in Phila who wears aggressively cut italian suits (roped shoulders, extremely supressed waist) in pinstripes or even seersucker, bright shirts, colorful ties, and flamboyant pocket squares. He is an excellent advocate and (as much as I disagree with him) a very outspoke Mumia supporter. His manner, though, is of a man of the Philadelphia streets. He is angry and tenacious. There is nothing slick about him. He sells his image to the jury and it works.

It's all attitude.

Originally Posted by temporaryachilles

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I once worked with a litigator who had an interesting approach to his wardrobe. Outside of the courtroom, he wore nice, well-tailored suits with quality shirts and ties -- clothes commensurate with his position in society. At trial, he wore an inexpensive, ill-fitting suit in order to be perceived as an ordinary guy who was forced to dress up for court. It worked well for him.

In 'The Runaway Jury' the lawyer played by Dustin Hoffman in the movie (dont remember his name in the book) deliberately wore mismatched suits, stained ties, etc, to be endearing to the jury.

Dressing too well is seen as threatening to the jury. Because they are made of such a variety of people, ranging in salaries, and lifestyles. If you dress like you are better than everyone, people can take that as being threatening. I'd see if the next jury thinks you dressed too well, and then maby tone down your wardrobe.

I think we could all learn something from the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer:

Attachment 12235

I think that in a court setting dressing that fancy is too risky because of how diverse the jurors can be. The number of people you could impress would be far outweighed by the number of people who would view that as snobby. Perhaps a modest but sharp look would do better in such a scenario.

Tlmusic is absolutely right. In my first job after college my boss advised me to always dress appropriately for the occasion and the audience (and of course the weather). It was good advice and has always served me well. Sometimes I dress to be imposing and authoritative and sometimes I dress to be a "regular guy". It all depends on what I'm trying to accomplish.

In the 1970s John T. Molloy wrote a book "Dressing for Success" - I don't know if it is still in print - in which he advised people in various professions how to dress - and what kind of impression each type (color, style, etc.) of clothing makes on various classes of people. Once you get a fix on who the jurors are, and you decide how you want to come across, then you dress accordingly.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by celery

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Honestly, something is telling me that the OP may be a little stuck up and it most likely shows. I fully expect a rundown on items in the WAYWT thread, but the OP went out of his way to tell us the makers of each piece, when those details are 100% arbitrary. Instead of mentioning: Why not just say, "French blue shirt, charcoal suit and black tie with blue dots. (and of course he was wearing black shoes on this day)" There is an inherent level of pretentiousness here that I feel was the true culprit of the juror's feelings. And perhaps the juror just associated the entire "vibe" he was getting from the OP with the clothing.
It's called attention to detail--something every good lawyer should have. To the OP - sorry to hear about your unfortunate outcome. If it makes you feel any better, there are probably hundreds of new lawyers and law students out there that will read this thread and learn a lesson: dress carefully and cautiously in the courtroom!

Juries are already suspicious of lawyers and expect them to attempt use style or rhetoric to obscure the substance of the case. Most trial consultants advise lawyers to wear quiet clothes (a professional uniform) in front of juries and save items that may be considered signifiers of wealth or sophistication (french cuffs, contrast collars, elaborate pin stripes, eccentric ties) for the office. It makes sense - if someone is trying to sell you something, the less elaborate the getup, the more likely we are to believe the seller isn't trying to hide anything.

It's not just a matter of class, but rather the relationship between the audience and the communicator.

Originally Posted by overdog

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It's called attention to detail--something every good lawyer should have.

To the OP - sorry to hear about your unfortunate outcome. If it makes you feel any better, there are probably hundreds of new lawyers and law students out there that will read this thread and learn a lesson: dress carefully and cautiously in the courtroom!

Very true.

Also, will reaffrirm my belief that many jurors make decisions based on arbitrary and capricious nonsense, rather than the material presented to them at trial...

As a former public-defender con professor once told me, remember that you're selling your case to 12 retirees, school teachers, and postal workers.

Originally Posted by lbcgav

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I think we could all learn something from the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer:

Attachment 12235

I'm just a simple caveman. Your world scares, and confuses me...

RIP Phil

double post, please delete

At least Johnny Cochran's infamous " If it doesn't fit, you can't convict" hasn't been thrown into this discussion. One of Senator Edwards biggest failings IS his image as lawyer with $500 haircuts. Life was simpler for Atticus Fitch and Perry Mason. But then everything was black and white.

Originally Posted by Soph

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I've seen Blue Collar guys have absolute fits over someone wearing cufflinks and even a simple sportcoat is a point of contention for some, so this doesn't surprise me in the least. If you're in Michigan or Pittsburgh I can see this really go down against you. It would be like driving a Mercedes to a UAW convention, many of the people are going to hate you and a few might even consider you an enemy and treat you with hostility. An expensive watch might even set these people off. If you're going to do it, just expect some individuals are going to have issues with it and deal or just wear more simplified clothes. Contrasting cuffs, cufflinks, tie bars, even a simple white linen pocket square will just be so foreign for some rural folk that you are going to get some negative feedback.

I live in michigan (and have alot of family from pittsburgh) and alot of uncles on my dads side are blue collar workers for gm. The UAW folks are the worst kind because there wages are so inflated if anything were to happen to the car companies (actually it is happening) with there limited skill set they would be lucky to find a job that would pay them half of what they get now. My one uncle works on the assembly line and is making 6 figures. Dude is making $100k for turning screws all day and they all have those "buy american" stickers on there trucks. They all live within 15 minutes of each other and work in the same plant.

Wearing polos or v neck sweaters is seen as dressing up and anything that fits correctly is "gay". My uncle wore cowboy boots to his own wedding for gods stake. The oddest thing about it all is my grandfather. He died over 10 years ago but he fought in WWII, came back and worked for gm until he died. He had a tailor in hamtramck make all his clothes and he was always in a suit and hat. My grandmother kept the stuff for the memories but she wants me to take them when she dies because I'm the only one who knows what I would be getting. I love my grandma and all but some of his pin stripe suits are calling my name.

Originally Posted by bmulford

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I'm just a simple caveman. Your world scares, and confuses me...

RIP Phil

"Your world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the odd noises from these metal boxes scares me and makes me want to run back to my cave. Sometimes when I look up at the ceiling I see these strange tubes that light up at the flick of a wall stick, I wonder, did demons catch light from the sun and put it there? I don't know! My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts."

RIP indeed.