Keeping old etiquette rules alive

pretty much sums it up for me. no need to hold it for anyone more than a couple of seconds away.

Originally Posted by más_cerveza

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This kind of nonsense always happens to me on the 6. When the train gets crowded (usually at Grand Central) I usually offer my seat to someone that looks like they need it. The other day I offered an elderly woman with a huge bag my seat and she gave me a dirty look. I guess she took it the wrong way but it's common courtesy.

That's why I hardly ever, ever sat on the 6, even when the car was nearly empty. It always gets full, and then what do you do. Also, it's a good way to avoid to avoid the homeless dudes and psychos who were always attracted to the seat right next to me.

Then there was the guy jerking off across the aisle on the Flushing-bound 7 out of Grand Central. When you're in the tunnel, you're more or less trapped for a few minutes. But that's another story.

Yeah I do the exact same thing on the buses. I stand even if I want to sit. Avoids awkwardly giving up your seat, and there's as a physically fit male there's no reason for me to sit when there are people around who need the seat more.

dp

Originally Posted by más_cerveza

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This kind of nonsense always happens to me on the 6. When the train gets crowded (usually at Grand Central) I usually offer my seat to someone that looks like they need it. The other day I offered an elderly woman with a huge bag my seat and she gave me a dirty look. I guess she took it the wrong way but it's common courtesy.

You could just get up and let them take the seat if they like. You don't need to offer it to them.

What a great thread.

I am all for old fashioned etiquette, but even I agree some rules need updating. It's great seeing people applying modern logic to traditions that in some cases are hundreds of years old.

Originally Posted by The Mitchelli

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What a great thread. I am all for old fashioned etiquette, but even I agree some rules need updating. It's great seeing people applying modern logic to traditions that in some cases are hundreds of years old.
Agreed. Opening a door, etc. isn't a commentary on the status of women in today's society or anything of the sort, but a sign of good manners, I agree. Most women appreciate these gestures, although not in the work place, I think. Seem to me that it's the old logic associated with some gestures, and not the gestures themselves, that make some people (women, disabled, elderly, etc.) uncomfortable about accepting a good gesture, even although it was well meant. Then, I just had a visual of Angela Merkel, German Chancellor, sitting around a table discussing whatever at a conference with other leaders. She gets up to go to the bathroom. Suddenly, all discussion abruptly comes to a halt, the sound of scrambling chairs fills the room as everyone else around the table (all males) rise to their feet. Whole thing's captured by the news cameras, thus drawing the world's attention to the fact that she needs to go to the loo ... That said, HRM Elizabeth II expects these things of course, and judges-male or female-do, too

Originally Posted by Jodum5

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You could just get up and let them take the seat if they like. You don't need to offer it to them.

+1

Originally Posted by Avocat

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Agreed.

Opening a door, etc. isn't a commentary on the status of women in today's society or anything of the sort, but a sign of good manners, I agree. Most women appreciate these gestures, although not in the work place, I think. Seem to me that it's the old logic associated with some gestures, and not the gestures themselves, that make some people (women, disabled, elderly, etc.) uncomfortable about accepting a good gesture, even although it was well meant.

Then, I just had a visual of Angela Merkel, German Chancellor, sitting around a table discussing whatever at a conference with other leaders. She gets up to go to the bathroom. Suddenly, all discussion abruptly comes to a halt, the sound of scrambling chairs fills the room as everyone else around the table (all males) rise to their feet. Whole thing's captured by the news cameras, thus drawing the world's attention to the fact that she needs to go to the loo ...

That said, HRM Elizabeth II expects these things of course, and judges-male or female-do, too

As with all these things that could offend even when you are trying to do the right thing... 'Know your audience' and 'be aware of your environment'......

Unfortunately you can only do so much. There have been times when I have been a traditional gentleman, only to have a lady roll her eyes and mutter under her breath 'I can open my own doors... thank you!'.

Originally Posted by The Mitchelli

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As with all these things that could offend even when you are trying to do the right thing... 'Know your audience' and 'be aware of your environment'......

Unfortunately you can only do so much. There have been times when I have been a traditional gentleman, only to have a lady roll her eyes and mutter under her breath 'I can open my own doors... thank you!'.
"*****".

Originally Posted by intent

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"*****".

More like "fuckin' *****"

Originally Posted by The Mitchelli

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As with all these things that could offend even when you are trying to do the right thing... 'Know your audience' and 'be aware of your environment'...... Unfortunately you can only do so much. There have been times when I have been a traditional gentleman, only to have a lady roll her eyes and mutter under her breath 'I can open my own doors... thank you!'.
Once again, I concur with you wholeheartedly. Yes, there are some women (and disabled, elderly, etc.) who react this way. It is unfortunate. Some, to be sure, can as Intent says be rather rude about it; I'm sure everyone here has a horror story to share. I know that I sure do. Even in the case of the disabled: I once opened the door for a man in a wheel chair only to have him mutter, rather loudly, that he was perfectly capable of taking care of himself. I shrug these things off, remembering that some people, in responding in this way, aren't necessarily objecting to us personally, but to some 300 year old person who is long since gone and buried. Or, it could simply be the case that such individuals are simply unable to accept an act of kindness, or just have bad manners. It's an unfortunate thing, and not pleasant when it happens, indeed. Then, these are likely the very same people who are the first to complain about the lack of civility in today's world, etc. Meanwhile, I'm starting to notice in some places that there are women who are beginning to open doors for men and other women when out in public. I am not sure how you gentlemen feel about this, but I think it's wonderful, albeit somewhat different. (Though I admit to finding it hard sometimes to navigate who opens the door for whom in these cases, usually leaving it to whomever gets to the door first, resulting in a smile and always a bit of a chuckle if both parties arrive at the door simultaneously). I'm curious if anyone else here has noticed this and/or experienced the same thing, and if so what you think about it. That said, I am a firm believer that most women (and disabled, elderly, etc.) do actually appreciate a well-mannered gentleman, and especially when it comes to inter-personal relationships (like, in the case of women, dating and marriage). tl/DR: Most women appreciate a well-mannered gentleman, and wouldn't it be lovely if everyone could simply accept a good gesture for its own sake, without trying to read anything into it (or, at the very least, not be rude about it, I do agree).

I think being called "ma'am" is interpreted by a woman as an offhanded slight, implying that she looks old enough to be called "ma'am". But what are the alternatives - "Madam"?, "Lady"?, "You hot little piece of ass"? I'm guessing the last one would actually be considered flattering to many women. Let's all try it and report back on the results.

Originally Posted by foodguy

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sigh. that's so "rhoda". of course they CAN. the question is whether they should HAVE to.

+ 1. I've never understood the "I can open the door myself argument." I know you can open the door, I'm not doing it because I don't think you can.

Originally Posted by Telefonica

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+ 1. I've never understood the "I can open the door myself argument." I know you can open the door, I'm not doing it because I don't think you can.

+100