When you should go bespoke

[archetypal_yuppie]



I'm English so probably not as much as I should have! I did flat out (but politely) refuse to do it at first because I genuinly felt it was ridiculous and I explained the costs involved. I asked him if he would cover or split the cost of the alteration, he just wouldn't do it. The suits were lovely as well one was a Loro Piana Prince of wales flannel the other a Dormeuil Royal 12. When I took it to Primo in Queens they looked at me like I was crazy for telling them to replace the front under those circumstances. The whole operation took $1000 out of my margin in real money not to mention time.

I think doing stuff like this though is why I have a 100% 5 star rating on every site. We always hear about clients getting a bad experience from makers but I wish we could review clients sometimes!

That sucks.

 

[TM79]



I may be in the minority, but I've never really worried or assumed a higher level of care is required for anything I buy. Granted I don't treat my stuff like ****, but I also really don't worry about wearing anything, whether that be a sweater or shoes or a suit. One of the great things about "buying better" is seeing something come into its own through wear and tear.

It would really take the piss out of "enjoying" clothes if I worried about them all the time.

I've never bought anything outside my financial comfort zone that would make me constantly worried about something happening to it.

I figure, if I ever get that way it means it was a stupid purchase to begin with. I go about my normal routine and take care of my stuff, but I'm not about to walk on egg shells over a damn pair of pants or jacket.

 

[Sander]



I've never bought anything outside my financial comfort zone that would make me constantly worried about something happening to it.

This, for me, is the determining factor for what I want to spend on something.

 

[OxxfordSJLINY]



archibald: "Meanwhile, I am satisfied with and enjoy my MTM garments and am not afraid of what might happen to them when I wear them out somewhere or drop them off at the dry cleaners."

Good point. I bought a lot of not-cheap cashmere over the last two years and there is no question that worrying about damage/moths/how to properly clean them is baggage that comes in addition to and correlates with the financial burden. In that sense there is virtue in cheaper things - no need to worry.

For me, spending a lot of money on a garment-or anything else, for that matter-would only cause me to worry about those pricey items getting damaged if I didn't have enough money to replace them in the event that those pricey items got damaged (but only if insurance policies nor warranties are available). Otherwise, I would never worry.

Of course, outside of homeowners insurance if you own-rather than rent-your home, you can't get insurance nor a warranty to replace damaged clothing regardless of the price of the clothing.

For what it's worth, people should only buy any expensive item if they can afford to replace it if it gets damaged (which is unlikely to happen if you don't abuse nor neglect it too much)-or, if it is possible (again, it is not possible with clothing at any price), to have an insurance policy or a warranty on it.

As we all know, with many items (such as homes and other types of buildings that people own, vehicles and too many other machines to mention-but far from all machines), an insurance policy is required by law.

However, appliances, electronics, vehicles and far too many other machines to mention, are only required by law to have a warranty in the first 4 years of ownership at the very least. I have never heard of a home-or any other type of building (owned and rented) having a warranty.

 

[archetypal_yuppie]



I've never bought anything outside my financial comfort zone that would make me constantly worried about something happening to it.

I figure, if I ever get that way it means it was a stupid purchase to begin with. I go about my normal routine and take care of my stuff, but I'm not about to walk on egg shells over a damn pair of pants or jacket.

I think I've been misunderstood.

Regarding the items I was talking about (cashmere), one of the reasons that I don't mind spending very high $ amounts is because, with proper care, these sweaters/jackets will last decades. With 10 items, I could be set for life, if I wanted to be.

A moth can destroy that time horizon, so it makes sense to worry about moths. I have mitigated that worry/risk by buying moth-proof breathable sweater bags.

A child smashing an ice-cream into the suede front of a $2.5K cashmere garment could also, potentially, cause irreversable harm, so I would avoid wearing said garment to a birthday party at chuck-e-cheese.

So, there is "walking on eggshells," and there is reasonable behavior modification. I wouldn't put a $20 long sleeve cotton holister t-shirt in a sweater bag or "worry" about going to chuck-e-cheese in it, but as the value of your garments escalates, I suspect we all make reasonable adjustments in terms of behavior and on when to wear things.

In that $20 t-shirt, I might dive for a frisbee or wash a car, but in Loro Piana I would not.

 

[Griffindork]

Good thread. I really like unbelragazzo's idea of wearing something that you love and asking how a particular tailor's style differs. I wore Huntsman to my first ever visit with Cifonelli, and was impressed at how Lorenzo wanted to make sure I really, really understood how different his garments would be from Huntsman and how thoughtful he is about explaining everything that he does. As for what happens when errors occur, I think that is a question that every client should ask up front. One of my first questions is always "what happens if I'm not happy?" It took me a few terrible experiences to learn that lesson (duncan quinn and then kilgour in my early days of trying custom and bespoke garments resulted in some pricey mistakes). But if you ask up front, and something goes wrong later, you can look the maker in the eye and say "you told me that I would be happy and I'm not".

 

[archetypal_yuppie]



Good thread. I really like unbelragazzo's idea of wearing something that you love and asking how a particular tailor's style differs. I wore Huntsman to my first ever visit with Cifonelli, and was impressed at how Lorenzo wanted to make sure I really, really understood how different his garments would be from Huntsman and how thoughtful he is about explaining everything that he does. As for what happens when errors occur, I think that is a question that every client should ask up front. One of my first questions is always "what happens if I'm not happy?" It took me a few terrible experiences to learn that lesson (duncan quinn and then kilgour in my early days of trying custom and bespoke garments resulted in some pricey mistakes). But if you ask up front, and something goes wrong later, you can look the maker in the eye and say "you told me that I would be happy and I'm not".

What is the range of answers that you have heard to the question "what happens if I'm not happy?"?

 

[Griffindork]



What is the range of answers that you have heard to the question "what happens if I'm not happy?"?

So far, no one overtly has told me "you will be stuck with a garment that you don't like," but there is a degree of specificity in an answer that can give you a pretty good sense of where you are going to end up. For example, I've heard "you don't have to worry about that because you will be happy", which means that when you get a garment that is different than what you expected, you will be offered some discount on your next garment if you want to roll the dice again. And I've also heard "we will re-make it to your satisfaction", which is self-explanatory.

 

[David Reeves]



Good thread. I really like unbelragazzo's idea of wearing something that you love and asking how a particular tailor's style differs. I wore Huntsman to my first ever visit with Cifonelli, and was impressed at how Lorenzo wanted to make sure I really, really understood how different his garments would be from Huntsman and how thoughtful he is about explaining everything that he does. As for what happens when errors occur, I think that is a question that every client should ask up front. One of my first questions is always "what happens if I'm not happy?" It took me a few terrible experiences to learn that lesson (duncan quinn and then kilgour in my early days of trying custom and bespoke garments resulted in some pricey mistakes). But if you ask up front, and something goes wrong later, you can look the maker in the eye and say "you told me that I would be happy and I'm not".

I sort of think that's a bit of a glass half empty attitude to have going in though. What happened at DQ and Kilgour? How come you didn't stick with Huntsman?

 

[Griffindork]



I sort of think that's a bit of a glass half empty attitude to have going in though. What happened at DQ and Kilgour? How come you didn't stick with Huntsman?

I'm not sure it's glass half empty. If you have 20 suits made from any tailor, even one of the world's best tailors, something is going to go wrong with one of them (although Cifonelli may be the exception because the process there is just much more exacting). That is just how it is. Sometimes, those mistakes are substantial (for example, customer orders patch and gets flapped pockets, or fit is simply way, way off). At that point, what really matters is how the mistake is handled. I'm happy to plunk down a pretty substantial sum for a suit, and if it goes well I'm probably going to be a customer for a long time. But when that one goes wrong, whether it is the first or the 20th, I want to understand how it will be dealt with. When one of those serious errors occurs, I'm not going to rant and rave and I won't show any anger or frustration, but I like for the error to be fixed or I'd simply like to get my money back. That strikes me as consistent with the bargain that a bespoke customer and tailor are making.

I stick with Huntsman. I will likely have 2 or 3 things made by Huntsman each year for the rest of my life. I just don't want everything I wear to be Huntsman as the style is fairly limited (you can order different things, but one button notch lapel or double breasted are really what they do).

 

[rudals1281]

Reasons to go bespoke

Hard to fit off the rack
This is probably the most obvious reason to go bespoke. Some people simply have a shape that lies outside of the middle ground that manufacturers cater to. Maybe years of hard labour has left you with a stoop, with shoulders rolling a long way forwards and a spine that is shaped like a question mark.

More likely your prominent shoulderblades and fondness for cake has left you sticking out at the back and front, but in different directions. Maybe you are 5'0" and 230lbs or 6'8" and 170lbs, the chances are that you'll need a custom job.

The most down to earth commission I've made was for a gent who was both wheelchair bound and required to be on television. He wanted a nicely fitting suit, but it couldn't have much of a back, and the front must be proportionate so as not to bunch up in his lap. We made him a jacket (and accompanying trousers) that he could never have had off the rack, and he looked good.

I hate it when I ask a question and every EFFING (pardon the language) is "go bespoke" or "for that price, I'd go bespoke." I CANNOT freaking stand these answers. Why?! I am 6 ft 165 lbs. When I put on a 38R/40R, it fits me perfectly (obviously the sleeves and hemming need to be done) so I don't want to waste my time and energy getting measured, picking out fabric, etc. I guess I should be thankful that things fit me "well" right off the rack and plus I don't have the patience to wait 8 weeks for a bespoke suit (checked out my local tailor recently). So I don't go bespoke because things just fit me well. I wish people would freaking stop and think before answering "go bespoke" to my idiotic questions. There...my venting is over.

I like the OP!

 

[add911_11]

The feeling of your jacket 'locking' on your shirt collar and shoulder is something that RTW can never do.

This is from my experience.

 

[archetypal_yuppie]



The feeling of your jacket 'locking' on your shirt collar and shoulder is something that RTW can never do.

This is from my experience.

warning: sample size is one person. warning: said person may or may not be unusually proportioned. warning: be careful when using the word "never."

 

[Blackhood]

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

 

[add911_11]



warning: sample size is one person. warning: said person may or may not be unusually proportioned. warning: be careful when using the word "never."

At least I can assure you that my shape is very normal, unlike some in here. My side of argument is simple: if bespoke fits your RTW worse, your tailor is ****.

Thanks for the warm warning.