Vintage English Shell Cordovan for BB - Curious Fact

[well-kept]

I just picked up a pair of shell PTBs clearly stamped "Brooks Brothers Made in England" on the sole, and bearing the Brooks English sock liner.

What strikes me is that among the interior markings is "M58", apparently the exact last on which Alden now makes, as they have for some years, the identical shoe. (The difference between Alden's Barrie-lasted ptb and the BB on the M58 is clear at fifty feet.) And, apart from minor distinctions such as number of stitches per inch, and the richer color of the older shell, the Brooks English ptb and the Alden/BB on the M58 are indeed identical.

I may be mistaken but I surmise that the English version was the original, and that BB at some point, perhaps to cut costs, transferred the lasts to Alden with the commission to produce the same shoe.

Does anyone have any information, or any idea when the switch took place?

 

[VegTan]

Are your shoes X765 or 765?
I gather a factory of cordovan shoes was changed from Church/Cheaney to Alden around the (late) 1970s.

Here are shell wingtip oxfords "X764" stamped "MADE IN GREAT BRITAIN" on the sock & the outsole.

Here are shell PTBs "X765" stamped "MADE IN GREAT BRITAIN" on the sock & the outsole and calf PTBs "X816R" stamped "MADE IN ENGLAND" on the sock & the outsole.

　X765: https://archive.today/H7yUE
　X816R: https://archive.today/ezhSy


Here are calf wingtip oxfords "X852" stamped "MADE IN GREAT BRITAIN" on the sock and calf wingtip oxfords "852" stamped "MADE IN ENGLAND" on the sock.

　X852: https://www.etsy.com/jp/listing/185479030/vintage-authentic-40s-leather-brown
　852: http://www.styleforum.net/t/133511/...ros-sz-8-9-10-12-13-8-31-pr-drop#post_2353795


Cordovan shoes in 1958 & 1970 are advertised as English shoes.

1958 Brooks English shoe catalog

The Pittsburgh Press - Mar 23, 1970

Cordovan shoes in 1977 & 1979 are not advertised as English shoes.

The Pittsburgh Press - Oct 13, 1977

The Pittsburgh Press - Nov 16, 1979

Cordovan shoes in 1980 Brooks Brothers Fall & Winter are obviously made by Alden.

HTJ Archives: Brooks Brothers Fall & Winter 1980

 

[well-kept]

Thank you for the superb reply.

Mine are marked X765. They are marked England rather than Great Britain on the sole and sock liner and the width is expressed by a letter rather than the model names used to designate width from '70 or so onward.

The quality of the shell is consistent with older shells from American makers, the clarity and depth of color. Current production seems an altogether different thing. A few years ago I wrote to Nick Horween to ask whether the tanning process changed at some point, without getting a real answer.