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RogerKaputnik

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The front of the boot is always lined, it has to be. Fully unstructured toebox vs partially or fully structured is the only thing I’ve found to really make a difference in room there, outside of typical leather variation.

Absolutely. Some people will try and tell you not, but I simply can't wear a captoe Viberg comfortably even if I size up a 1/2 size. CS at Viberg also mentioned the reduced space when using a cap toe to me on an MTO order.
This knowledge has cost me 100's of $$.

Ya "simple" questions always have complicated, subjective answers in the world of high end shoe-sizing, lol.

I am interested in a pair of 2030 Bobcats in a 7.5, but am concerned about width, although I wear the 1035 comfortably in that size with the wider toe-box.
 

ThatDudeOrion

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Absolutely. Some people will try and tell you not, but I simply can't wear a captoe Viberg comfortably even if I size up a 1/2 size. CS at Viberg also mentioned the reduced space when using a cap toe to me on an MTO order.
This knowledge has cost me 100's of $$.

so I definitely don’t doubt your experience, and I have heard this concern across different makers but it’s one that I find really baffling because the lining leather is there when the the upper gets lasted, meaning the liner is no closer or farther from your foot than the upper leather would be if the toe was completely unlined. Same with the cap toe, it’s already stitched on to the upper before the upper gets stretched over the last, so to my way of thinking about it, the toe cap is pushed further out into space away from your foot, as opposed to the presence of the cap toe pushing the vamp/lining closer to your foot, if that makes sense. So on day 1 on the new boot my theory is that the inside volume of the vamp should always match the last it was built around regardless of the presence of lining or toe caps, however what I think might be happening is that the presence of lining and toe caps would increase stiffness and reduce the stretchability of the toe portion of the boot, leading to one that breaks in more slowly / differently than unlined or plain toe versions built on the same last. Leading to some customers feeling the need to size up or width up on cap toe versions of the same boot but Not necessarily because they are smaller than the plain toe version. Idk if that’s correct or not, just my way rationalizing my belief that 2 boots built on the same size/model of last should fit the same regardless of lined/unlined or plain toe/cap toe
 

robster288

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so I definitely don’t doubt your experience, and I have heard this concern across different makers but it’s one that I find really baffling because the lining leather is there when the the upper gets lasted, meaning the liner is no closer or farther from your foot than the upper leather would be if the toe was completely unlined. Same with the cap toe, it’s already stitched on to the upper before the upper gets stretched over the last, so to my way of thinking about it, the toe cap is pushed further out into space away from your foot, as opposed to the presence of the cap toe pushing the vamp/lining closer to your foot, if that makes sense. So on day 1 on the new boot my theory is that the inside volume of the vamp should always match the last it was built around regardless of the presence of lining or toe caps, however what I think might be happening is that the presence of lining and toe caps would increase stiffness and reduce the stretchability of the toe portion of the boot, leading to one that breaks in more slowly / differently than unlined or plain toe versions built on the same last. Leading to some customers feeling the need to size up or width up on cap toe versions of the same boot but Not necessarily because they are smaller than the plain toe version. Idk if that’s correct or not, just my way rationalizing my belief that 2 boots built on the same size/model of last should fit the same regardless of lined/unlined or plain toe/cap toe

yeh I get the "Theory", but like I said...I'm down $100's because the theory didn't match the actual fit...+ I actually lost a big toenail trying to stretch the toe box out. That's in a 2030 size 9 1/2 and then a 10 (cause I wanted to lose more money). No toe cap 9 1/2 - great straight out of the box.
Also have experience with the 2040 last. I wore 2040 no toe caps until the sole wore out and my 2040 cap toe boots I'm smashed up in there.
 

honestpanda

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I haven’t noticed any difference in sizes. 2030 structured, unstructured, with or without captoe...they all fit the same to me.
 
Last edited:

smartbrother

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so I definitely don’t doubt your experience, and I have heard this concern across different makers but it’s one that I find really baffling because the lining leather is there when the the upper gets lasted, meaning the liner is no closer or farther from your foot than the upper leather would be if the toe was completely unlined. Same with the cap toe, it’s already stitched on to the upper before the upper gets stretched over the last, so to my way of thinking about it, the toe cap is pushed further out into space away from your foot, as opposed to the presence of the cap toe pushing the vamp/lining closer to your foot, if that makes sense. So on day 1 on the new boot my theory is that the inside volume of the vamp should always match the last it was built around regardless of the presence of lining or toe caps, however what I think might be happening is that the presence of lining and toe caps would increase stiffness and reduce the stretchability of the toe portion of the boot, leading to one that breaks in more slowly / differently than unlined or plain toe versions built on the same last. Leading to some customers feeling the need to size up or width up on cap toe versions of the same boot but Not necessarily because they are smaller than the plain toe version. Idk if that’s correct or not, just my way rationalizing my belief that 2 boots built on the same size/model of last should fit the same regardless of lined/unlined or plain toe/cap toe

^this
 

smartbrother

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Taking bets drop 2 will include a Gladiator sandal

1E46EC5B-0785-41D1-9813-CC851D0FA71E.png
 

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