Vest Button Count

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by dopey

I disagree that the upper two pockets are dated, at least any more than the vest is already dated to begin with. I have a preference for lapels on lower flap pockets, so I have started getting rid of the top welt pocket to keep the vest from being too busy. But I certainly don't think there is anything old-fashioned or dated about them, and if I were taller or doing without the lapels or the flapped lower pockets, I would keep the upper pockets. The classic suit vest is certainly 6 buttons, one cut on the point and not working, with no lapels and four pockets. I have one with only five buttons (all working) and it makes no difference. It just isn't classic. As noted above, height should be moderate and work with the suit coat so it is showing a little but not too much. Here is an example of too much vest.
The term "classic" is so numbed and vague that it is meaningless anyway. The world seems separated between those who want to look dapper and those who want 6 buttons irrespective because they've read somewhere that if you don't have 6 you're a cad. As far as I am concerned something either looks good or it doesn't. I don't force an extra button or buttonhole onto something because someone might tell me I did it wrong. I might actually prefer a 5 button vest just to drive the 6 button vest fanatics to madness. Is a one button suit classic? Maybe in some tailoring houses, just like the 6 button vest is traditional in others. I decided I liked it better on me than a two button. Part of the reason was functionality, part of it was aesthetic and part is because I realize people do not notice the second button missing anymore so it's no longer, odd here. I dont necessarily think the vest is dated, just the matching one and to update it, lose the upper two welt pockets and forget the flaps, lapels etc... That's my observation for someone who wants to wear a matching vest in 2008 without anyone batting an eyelash. We are in a minimalist period for certain tailoring details. Of course, for those who want to look classic or vintage or traditional or what ever loaded term makes you look like you've come from the good old days, then get all the details you want. I dont think it will make a huge difference if you wore a lapelled vest but if I were recommending a vest style for a new suit, I would get it very streamlined. But I would suggest getting a silk odd vest maybe in a tie pattern or maybe a wild pattern as most current.

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

The term "classic" is so numbed and vague that it is meaningless anyway. The world seems separated between those who want to look dapper and those who want 6 buttons irrespective because they've read somewhere that if you don't have 6 you're a cad. As far as I am concerned something either looks good or it doesn't. I don't force an extra button or buttonhole onto something because someone might tell me I did it wrong. I might actually prefer a 5 button vest just to drive the 6 button vest fanatics to madness. Is a one button suit classic? Maybe in some tailoring houses, just like the 6 button vest is traditional in others. I decided I liked it better on me than a two button. Part of the reason was functionality, part of it was aesthetic and part is because I realize people do not notice the second button missing anymore so it's no longer, odd here. I dont necessarily think the vest is dated, just the matching one and to update it, lose the upper two welt pockets and forget the flaps, lapels etc... That's my observation for someone who wants to wear a matching vest in 2008 without anyone batting an eyelash. We are in a minimalist period for certain tailoring details. Of course, for those who want to look classic or vintage or traditional or what ever loaded term makes you look like you've come from the good old days, then get all the details you want. I dont think it will make a huge difference if you wore a lapelled vest but if I were recommending a vest style for a new suit, I would get it very streamlined. But I would suggest getting a silk odd vest maybe in a tie pattern or maybe a wild pattern as most current.
I think your suggestions are really weird. No wildly striped silk vests for me, no matter how minimalist is the tailoring period we are now in.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by dopey

I think your suggestions are really weird. No wildly striped silk vests for me, no matter how minimalist is the tailoring period we are now in.
Maybe youre conjuring the weirdest version you can think of but what I am picturing is hardly weird, it's simply current and updated. That was a sort of old-boy-hip thing for someone who really likes to wear clothes; certainly not for everyone. Although it could be interesting to take a striped tie fabric and make a vest. I wonder if I would do it at a diagonal or vertically? I think either a geometric or even a silk like the ones Duchamp uses for their ties might be interesting. That would be elegant for a special occasion. Obviously i wouldnt advise strutting around a big ten law firm like that.

I dont think were are in a minimalist tailoring period, I think the details chosen by customers are often the absence of bells and whistles and I dont think that's necessarily a completely positive thing. Men are focusing on other things to suggest custom made.

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

Maybe youre conjuring the weirdest version you can think of but what I am picturing is hardly weird, it's simply current and updated. That was a sort of old-boy-hip thing for someone who really likes to wear clothes; certainly not for everyone. Although it could be interesting to take a striped tie fabric and make a vest. I wonder if I would do it at a diagonal or vertically? I think either a geometric or even a silk like the ones Duchamp uses for their ties might be interesting. That would be elegant for a special occasion. Obviously i wouldnt advise strutting around a big ten law firm like that.

I know you are enamored with those terms and descriptions. They seem silly to me and very artificial. I have trouble figuring out whether they actually mean. But that is ok. I guess they work for you. A vest like you are describing could be cool but only for special occasions and would be somewhere like 500 on my list of things I want. I did get one made in London in a beautiful silk tapestry brocade from one of those custom waistcoat shops. In the dozen years I have had it, it got about three wearings.

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

I dont think were are in a minimalist tailoring period, I think the details chosen by customers are often the absence of bells and whistles and I dont think that's necessarily a completely positive thing. Men are focusing on other things to suggest custom made.
I think this is true, though I am not giving up lapels on my vests. I am sure it is a reaction to the prior trend for hacking and ticket pockets. But why do you say it is not a positive thing? Seems like just another point on a cycle.

 

[SuitGuy24]

Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments and conversation. From what I gather, I am going to see how I go with the jacket before I make a descision.

 

[OxxfordSJLINY]

Originally Posted by SuitGuy24

Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments and conversation. From what I gather, I am going to see how I go with the jacket before I make a descision.

Whatever decision(s) you make with your bespoke vested suit(s), I wish you the best of luck to you, SuitGuy24.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by dopey

I know you are enamored with those terms and descriptions. They seem silly to me and very artificial. I have trouble figuring out whether they actually mean. But that is ok. I guess they work for you.
I consider them useful reference points to understand clothes and how men view them. They are created by me but not invented. They are based on my observations on men and how they get dressed. There are good reasons to think about where you fit in that range from saving yourself money to understanding why you choose things or what you should choose. Most clothes by themselves are not offensive per se it is the manner in which they are combined and used. It occurs to me, when someone shows an item here it is often judged to not fit into it's most unsuitable role. Someone shows purple suede lace up boots, someone else thinks that wouldn't fit in at a Fortune 500 Board meeting. Maybe they don't fit in anywhere but one needs to learn to deconstruct before one can criticize. Separating lifestyles into broad enough categories gives a better reference for the discussion of clothes and helps people to understand that no one is suggesting they have to admire an item for their own use in order to admire an item. Fogey= Reactionary dressing. He can either be a skin flint who holds onto his clothes from a long time ago or someone who gets new clothes made up in the exact materials used say 50-75 years ago. Vintage items can play a large role here. Old-Boy= Tradition trumps modernity but everything is relatively new in it's make. No vintage items except for the occasional pair of cufflinks. Cost is an issue even if he is wealthy, no super 150s, no cashmere suit cloth. Cloth weights themselves can be relatively light Old-Boy-Hip= Likes tradition but tradition does not trump convenience, luxury or comfort. Hip= Cutting edge. Uses old world tailoring techniques but makes great use of modern materials, colors, finishes. Sometimes purposefully uses items or combinations that are not traditional. Definitely a Big City look and has a foot in the designer sphere. Slick= Too much cross over between genres or wrong choices or uses within genres. Or those times when an item was just executed improperly or is intrinsically wrong for any purpose.

Originally Posted by dopey

A vest like you are describing could be cool but only for special occasions and would be somewhere like 500 on my list of things I want. I did get one made in London in a beautiful silk tapestry brocade from one of those custom waistcoat shops. In the dozen years I have had it, it got about three wearings.
That actually sounds very nice. I am getting one made up now. I will wear it for dinner at a nice restaurant and if I ever find myself walking around in a suit with nothing special to do.

Originally Posted by dopey

I think this is true, though I am not giving up lapels on my vests. I am sure it is a reaction to the prior trend for hacking and ticket pockets. But why do you say it is not a positive thing? Seems like just another point on a cycle.
I would never ask anyone to give up their vest lapels only suggest that they not get them for a new vest. To suggest that someone do something different going forward is not to invalidate what has come before. I do not say it is not a positive thing, I did not want to give the impression that I am rooting for the removal of details just that I observe it is taking place.

 

[dopey]

Originally Posted by Film Noir Buff

. . .It occurs to me, when someone shows an item here it is often judged to not fit into it's most unsuitable role. Someone shows purple suede lace up boots, someone else thinks that wouldn't fit in at a Fortune 500 Board meeting. Maybe they don't fit in anywhere but one needs to learn to deconstruct before one can criticize. . .
There are people who do make judgments like this, but they are idiots. Most things have their place or context and you are right that it is important to identify what the purpose is and evaluate accordingly. But it is also true that some things don't fit in anywhere or for anyone or, since there is a lid for every pot, at least for anywhere or anyone I would want to be.