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Unlined MTM Suit Recommendations?

john405

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I want to purchase a MTM suit, likely from suitsupply because there's an abundance of options to choose from. Before I do I have a list of questions. If you have experience ordering MTM garments please answer what you can! I appreciate your suggestions

1. Do you recommend that I go unlined?

I live in a warm climate so to get the most use out of this suit, i would like to go unlined. Fully unlined aside from the arm holes. (not butterfly lining).

2. if you go unlined what are your options for shoulder?
SUSU allows you to have structured pads in the shoulder and allows you to select unlined. Does that mean the padding is exposed? this is just out of curiosity that i ask since i think the shirt shoulder would be my pick for versatility and comfort

3. If you go unlined what is your recommendation for the garment weight?

Since we do not have a lining, what is the sweet spot for weight of the garment for drape and coolness and comfort?

4. Do you have any pictures of a susu jacket that is unlined with shirt shoulder and 2 layers of canvassing fabric? does susu have a model in store for this combination to see in person?

5. for the fit of the jacket does the MTM allow for particular requests like having high arm holes relative to the pattern?

6. What is your experience with maintaining your MTM suit long term?

When you gain weight, have you been able to let out enough fabric at the tailor's? is it cheaper since the suit is unlined? and along those lines could you request susu to add say an half inch extra in the seams for this purpose?

Also, how does it hold up in dry cleaning. My thought is that since there are fewer materials it would fair better? than an identical suit that has more cnvassing, padding, and lining?

Sorry if this is a long post, but ive read through the forum and couldn't find a thread that answers all these questions
 

Phileas Fogg

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My advice….stay away from suit supply. Just search for pics of the shit that passes for made to measure from them if you don’t believe me.

At the risk of behind blunt, if you want made to measure then pony up and do it right. Otherwise, stick to off the rack.
 

john405

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What other shops do you recommend? I actually get a company discount for oliver wicks, but the options are limited. Are you saying go bespoke? May not be feasible and may require a bit too much in terms of my time to go in for many fittings. I kind of want a service that saves my pattern and lets me place orders at any time. But I hear you on the quality issue from them
 

Viatu

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I'd look at Spier & Mackay before Suitsupply. Spier isn't perfect but I think they'd suit you better than Suitsupply.
 

stuffedsuperdud

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Okay there's a lot to parse here and I'm not an expert like one of the actual tailors or MTM fitters here, but I do own my fair share of MTM warm weather jackets, so I will try:

1. Do you recommend that I go unlined?

I live in a warm climate so to get the most use out of this suit, i would like to go unlined. Fully unlined aside from the arm holes. (not butterfly lining).
Get the butterfly lining. Without it, the fabric, especially a lightweight summer fabric, will cling and pull to your shoulders and hang awkwardly. Temperature-wise, I don't think there's much of a difference between butterfly vs none at all.

2. if you go unlined what are your options for shoulder?
SUSU allows you to have structured pads in the shoulder and allows you to select unlined. Does that mean the padding is exposed? this is just out of curiosity that i ask since i think the shirt shoulder would be my pick for versatility and comfort
No, the padding is not visible. Even without lining, a suit jacket consists of two layers of suit fabric, one facing outside and one facing your body, with the structural materials sandwiched in between. You'll still have that inner layer of fabric even without the lining. My summer jackets all have what the maker calls "lightly padded," so that there's hint of structure. It's no different from what I get on my winter jackets. I do have broad thick shoulders though so you might want a bit more structure depending on your build.

3. If you go unlined what is your recommendation for the garment weight?

Since we do not have a lining, what is the sweet spot for weight of the garment for drape and coolness and comfort?
For comfort and drape, the weave of the fabric and quality of the wool fibers will be just as important the weight, which can be a bit of an overused parameter. My favorite summer jacket is made out of something from the Loro Piana Australis book, which I believe is about 10oz S150s. Hard-wearing, drapes cleanly, comfortable in an LA summer, and surprisingly wrinkle resistant. I also have a summer blazer in an off-brand 8oz wool that feels good in the heat but is worse at everything else (wrinkles easily, clings to my shirt, feels crisp)

5. for the fit of the jacket does the MTM allow for particular requests like having high arm holes relative to the pattern?
This depends on the maker. "Cheap" MTM will not be able to do this for you, while pricier stuff (where things start well into the $1000+ range) will try. Armholes are not a simple matter of higher = better. Changing the height of the hole beyond what the pattern allows for can have downstream effects on how the chest and shoulders of the jacket look and feel, which is okay in bespoke as you will be playing around with multiple fittings. MTM jackets come to you with the sleeves and shoulders finished, and it will be too late by then to account for any oddities that the changing of the armhole caused.

6. What is your experience with maintaining your MTM suit long term?

When you gain weight, have you been able to let out enough fabric at the tailor's? is it cheaper since the suit is unlined? and along those lines could you request susu to add say an half inch extra in the seams for this purpose?

Also, how does it hold up in dry cleaning. My thought is that since there are fewer materials it would fair better? than an identical suit that has more cnvassing, padding, and lining?
Now you're worrying too much. You're just as likely to wear the suit out first, or stop liking it as much once minor details like lapel width or gorge height goes out of fashion. But to answer your question, my tailor charges based on how many seams he'll have to open, adjust, and close. It's about the same amount of work, lined or not. If anything, unlined jackets are actually more expensive to alter since they have to be extra careful about getting the seams closed back up neatly, whereas with a lining, you can just hide some sloppy work under the rug.

Dry cleaning ain't great for clothes in general, and it's the outer fabric that loses its spirit a bit, not the structure. If anything I'd imagine a structured jacket will hold up better after lots and lots of washes since there's more reinforcement inside. In any case, mine have been drycleaned a few times (summer clothes seem to suffer the worst of sweat, food, booze, etc.) but don't look particularly worse for wear.

Anecdote: I was on a road trip with a friend driving through the Southwest, and was wearing the 8oz blazer. As I was driving, she was in the passenger seat wrestling with the lid on a thermos of coffee. The lid popped violently off, and then I saw her staring at me, mouth agape, and then went, "....I am so sorry."

I looked over and saw that the thermos was aimed at me, but didn't realize right away what was wrong. She goes, "Uh...look down..." and that was when I saw that my entire right side was drenched in coffee. It was messy enough that we actually had to pull over so that I could wring myself out and change into a dry shirt. She got away completely unscathed.

So the thing sat in the trunk inside a plastic bag, marinading in dry coffee for a week, but came back from the cleaner no worse for wear. My car smelled like coffee for the rest of the trip though ugh.

Anyway overall, a few recommendations as this seems like your first MTM:
  1. Do the fitting in person. This is more than just translating a set of dimensions from your body onto fabric. Indeed, the difference between good MTM and catastrophic failure depends entirely on the fitter.
  2. Don't go SuSu. They offer a lot of bells and whistles but don't actually have a particularly large selection of fabrics, just cheapish stuff that passes for nice because it sound Italian. A suit ultimately comes down to fit and fabric, not details like contrast buttonholes and quarter vs butterfly vs full lining. Their fitters are also trained to dress everyone the SuitSupply way, that is to say, an uncomfortable jacket 2 sizes too small, and pants that you cannot bend over in.
  3. Where do you live? If you're near a major metro area, you can probably to an Enzo Custom or a Hall Madden. They're both smallish chains who seem to work out of the same factories and provide a similar product. They also carry really nice fabrics (Zegna, Scabal, Holland and Sherry etc) that you cannot get through the players in the $500-$1000 suit range, like SuSu. I have had several garments made through Enzo and like them, and Hall Madden gets a bit of play on the site and people seem happy with it, including really discriminating folks like Peter Zottolo. If you are near a proper menswear shop, they'll also probably have MTM through Hickey Freeman, HSM, Samuelsohn, or something to that effect, which will also make a much nicer suit than anything you can get at susu.
 

john405

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Okay there's a lot to parse here and I'm not an expert like one of the actual tailors or MTM fitters here, but I do own my fair share of MTM warm weather jackets, so I will try:



Get the butterfly lining. Without it, the fabric, especially a lightweight summer fabric, will cling and pull to your shoulders and hang awkwardly. Temperature-wise, I don't think there's much of a difference between butterfly vs none at all.



No, the padding is not visible. Even without lining, a suit jacket consists of two layers of suit fabric, one facing outside and one facing your body, with the structural materials sandwiched in between. You'll still have that inner layer of fabric even without the lining. My summer jackets all have what the maker calls "lightly padded," so that there's hint of structure. It's no different from what I get on my winter jackets. I do have broad thick shoulders though so you might want a bit more structure depending on your build.



For comfort and drape, the weave of the fabric and quality of the wool fibers will be just as important the weight, which can be a bit of an overused parameter. My favorite summer jacket is made out of something from the Loro Piana Australis book, which I believe is about 10oz S150s. Hard-wearing, drapes cleanly, comfortable in an LA summer, and surprisingly wrinkle resistant. I also have a summer blazer in an off-brand 8oz wool that feels good in the heat but is worse at everything else (wrinkles easily, clings to my shirt, feels crisp)



This depends on the maker. "Cheap" MTM will not be able to do this for you, while pricier stuff (where things start well into the $1000+ range) will try. Armholes are not a simple matter of higher = better. Changing the height of the hole beyond what the pattern allows for can have downstream effects on how the chest and shoulders of the jacket look and feel, which is okay in bespoke as you will be playing around with multiple fittings. MTM jackets come to you with the sleeves and shoulders finished, and it will be too late by then to account for any oddities that the changing of the armhole caused.



Now you're worrying too much. You're just as likely to wear the suit out first, or stop liking it as much once minor details like lapel width or gorge height goes out of fashion. But to answer your question, my tailor charges based on how many seams he'll have to open, adjust, and close. It's about the same amount of work, lined or not. If anything, unlined jackets are actually more expensive to alter since they have to be extra careful about getting the seams closed back up neatly, whereas with a lining, you can just hide some sloppy work under the rug.

Dry cleaning ain't great for clothes in general, and it's the outer fabric that loses its spirit a bit, not the structure. If anything I'd imagine a structured jacket will hold up better after lots and lots of washes since there's more reinforcement inside. In any case, mine have been drycleaned a few times (summer clothes seem to suffer the worst of sweat, food, booze, etc.) but don't look particularly worse for wear.

Anecdote: I was on a road trip with a friend driving through the Southwest, and was wearing the 8oz blazer. As I was driving, she was in the passenger seat wrestling with the lid on a thermos of coffee. The lid popped violently off, and then I saw her staring at me, mouth agape, and then went, "....I am so sorry."

I looked over and saw that the thermos was aimed at me, but didn't realize right away what was wrong. She goes, "Uh...look down..." and that was when I saw that my entire right side was drenched in coffee. It was messy enough that we actually had to pull over so that I could wring myself out and change into a dry shirt. She got away completely unscathed.

So the thing sat in the trunk inside a plastic bag, marinading in dry coffee for a week, but came back from the cleaner no worse for wear. My car smelled like coffee for the rest of the trip though ugh.

Anyway overall, a few recommendations as this seems like your first MTM:
  1. Do the fitting in person. This is more than just translating a set of dimensions from your body onto fabric. Indeed, the difference between good MTM and catastrophic failure depends entirely on the fitter.
  2. Don't go SuSu. They offer a lot of bells and whistles but don't actually have a particularly large selection of fabrics, just cheapish stuff that passes for nice because it sound Italian. A suit ultimately comes down to fit and fabric, not details like contrast buttonholes and quarter vs butterfly vs full lining. Their fitters are also trained to dress everyone the SuitSupply way, that is to say, an uncomfortable jacket 2 sizes too small, and pants that you cannot bend over in.
  3. Where do you live? If you're near a major metro area, you can probably to an Enzo Custom or a Hall Madden. They're both smallish chains who seem to work out of the same factories and provide a similar product. They also carry really nice fabrics (Zegna, Scabal, Holland and Sherry etc) that you cannot get through the players in the $500-$1000 suit range, like SuSu. I have had several garments made through Enzo and like them, and Hall Madden gets a bit of play on the site and people seem happy with it, including really discriminating folks like Peter Zottolo. If you are near a proper menswear shop, they'll also probably have MTM through Hickey Freeman, HSM, Samuelsohn, or something to that effect, which will also make a much nicer suit than anything you can get at susu.
Excellent response. Thanks
 

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