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Toronto restaurant recommendation

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by SField, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. audiophilia

    audiophilia Senior member

    Messages:
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    Don't expect a reasonable or logical reply to any of those statements.

    That's what I and, by all accounts, the rest of the thread viewers want. He won't let us down. That boy loves the GTA.

    Here's something to be going on with:

    Orchestra - Mtl
    Hockey - C'mon[​IMG]
    Baseball - [​IMG]
    Basketball - crap sport
    Opera - TO
    Ballet - TO
    Art Gallery -- both suck
    Museum - TO (the only one and it sucks)
    Weather - Toronto (just)
    Skiing - Mtl
    Jazz -- tie
    Rock - dunno
    Cuisine - Mtl
    Fine shopping - TO
    Transit - Mtl
    Drivers - C'mon!
    Road system - Mtl, by far.
    Road quality - TO
    University - Mtl [​IMG]
    High School TO/CEGEP Mtl - CEGEP is far superior
    Airport - TO
    Housing - Mtl
    Taxes - TO
    Wages - TO


    [​IMG]
     
  2. SField

    SField Senior member

    Messages:
    6,278
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    That's what I and, by all accounts, the rest of the thread viewers want. He won't let us down. That boy loves the GTA.

    Here's something to be going on with:

    Orchestra - Mtl
    Hockey - C'mon[​IMG]
    Baseball - [​IMG]
    Basketball - crap sport
    Opera - TO
    Ballet - TO
    Art Gallery -- both suck
    Museum - TO (the only one and it sucks)
    Weather - Toronto (just)
    Skiing - Mtl
    Jazz -- tie
    Rock - dunno
    Cuisine - Mtl
    Fine shopping - TO
    Transit - Mtl
    Drivers - C'mon!
    Road system - Mtl, by far.
    Road quality - TO
    University - Mtl [​IMG]
    High School TO/CEGEP Mtl - CEGEP is far superior
    Airport - TO
    Housing - Mtl
    Taxes - TO
    Wages - TO


    [​IMG]


    Really don't agree on the Opera. I've heard much better performances in Montreal, and considering that a great deal of the best Opera singers in canada are french and all the talent is in Montreal (ensemble players for ntl. ballet and opera are all just rank and file TSOers - mediocre regional orchestra quality), just having an ugly Ikea-like opera center with a pitiful side entrance with all the charm of a Bay st. law firm doesn't mean your city has good Opera. Never heard any performance in TO that was on par with Chicago Lyric or The Met, but in Montreal, I certainly did. You could never have tens of thousands show up for a performance of Carmen in Toronto. Montreal does that every year in the square outside of Place des Arts.

    Also jazz, come on? World's biggest Jazz fest in Montreal.... how does Toronto even close, when in Montreal there's a channel on TV that you can watch the entire festival, around the clock for the entire year until the new festival? Every big jazz head I know, including the European ones, all rave about Montreal. Montreal jazz clubs are better too. I'll give the new terminal to Pearson, but that's about it with that airport. Still prefer arrivals/departures at Trudeau. Neither are good airports though.
     
  3. freshcutgrass

    freshcutgrass Senior member

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    Whooooa....you're just getting too clever for me.


    I notice quite a few of you self-proclaimed therapists like to use the term..."the problem with..." & "your problem is..." a lot. Can I send you my address so you can bill me? I feel guilty.

    Oh...but I am well versed in the many varied versions of Toronto hating (most of my childhood was not spent in Toronto, and I've traveled extensively). 905 hate is different from northern Ontario hate, which is different from rural Ontario hate (Prince Edward County doesn't officially hate Toronto...they just hate anybody in their county who isn't "county" ). Then there's First Nations hate. And that only takes care of a very generalized sweep Ontario.

    Peggers aren't too infected, and I've never really detected anything particular about Prairie hate.

    Alberta hate (the Bible Belt of Canada for those not in the know) is a mixture of just compulsory generalized "Canadian" Toronto hate (I believe this is subliminally taught in kindergarten in all non-Toronto schools), mixed with self-righteous born-again moral hate, separation anxiety hate (they think we are just too far away), and a healthy dose of selfish hate..."now that we are a "have" province, we don't want to give a penny to anyone else", including Albertans not worthy...hence the one-way bus tickets to Vancouver hilarity (this is not specialized Toronto hate really...more just non-Alberta hate). Edmonton is noticeably more easy going about this than Calgary (who thinks a rodeo is the cultural highlight of Canada).

    B.C. hate is again some separation anxiety hate, plus they assume we are just all tight-assed Bay Street Bankers. Vancouverites tend to get really pissed off if they actually make it to Toronto to find this stereotype a myth, and there are actually way more bohemian, arty types here than BC, although reprogramming seems to be very easy once they return to Vancouver.

    Maritimers don't tend to hate anybody. They may be a bit "wary" of Toronto, but would much rather just make fun of you. I find Maritimers expect to be a fish out of water when they hit the "Big Smoke" ahead of time, but also expect to get a job. (A big Canadian FAIL to you, if you haven't seen Goin' Down the Road).

    There's a big difference between Quebec hate and Montreal hate. Quebec (sans Mtl) hates Toronto by default, as it's the alpha city of english Canada, in Ontario, which also contains the federal govt. This isn't silly hate like the rest of the country...it's some serious, emotional hate.

    Montreal is not dominated by english hate (in fact, they have just as much of an issue with the rest of Que). Their superior attitude actually had some basis back a million years ago when the two cities actually had something resembling a rivalry going on. But Toronto has left them so far in the dust, that we just couldn't be bothered anymore. They still think this is going on of course, and realizing we just don't see them as any serious competition really gets them mad. To add insult to injury, we don't even make an effort to return the hate...we actually like Montreal and say so. The ones that see this as a condescending pat on the head get extra special crispy pissed. he he


    I think you make for a fabulous suburbanite, but from where I'm standing...you can keep it too (and at least it isn't Milton or Brampton).
     
  4. audiophilia

    audiophilia Senior member

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    Joined:
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    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    SField:

    Of course, the Jazz Festival. Duh! My father played enough gigs in it. Like I said, the port!!

    The Opera in Mtl is accompanied by the Metropolitain, which is not a patch on the excellent COC orchestra (built over the past twenty odd years by the late, great Richard Bradshaw). And the singers, from what my ex-students say, are generally good. Toronto can draw some good singers. But, I have seen 4 fabulous, world-class productions at the COC over the last couple of years. One was even accepted at the Edinburgh Festival, Robert Lepage's stunning verson of Bartok's Blackbeard's Castle (although directed by a Quebecer!). A singular event for a Canadian artistic outfit (other than the odd Euro ballet trip). Dutchman, Pelleas, and Erwartung were superb, too. But Blackbeard is still one of the greatest things I've experienced.

    The above matched the best of the Lyric. The COC is not consistently on par with the two you cite, though. Love the Met.
     
  5. freshcutgrass

    freshcutgrass Senior member

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    690
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    Jul 5, 2008
    Don't you get tired? Ever?

    Yea...cause they're just so well known for dreadful service there. ha ha ha

    You should have phoned ahead and told them who you are...I'm sure they would have the closed the store down (on Boxing Day), so you could do some private shopping...I'm sure the staff would prefer it to the Boxing Day crowds. And I'm sure they would have plenty of complimentary "Wine & Port" on hand so you could feel right at home.


    A chip off the 'ole block eh? How wonderful

    Let me tell you something...if you don't think any sales staff couldn't smell a shitty attitude like yours from a mile away, then you are as delusional as you seem. Would also explain your perception of bad service at restaurants normally known for good service.


    Oh right...the sidewalk. Cause I noticed the sidewalks on Madison the last time I was there were just "world class". ha ha ha

    They are actually prepping that street for the $20 million sidewalk improvement project...already u/c at Yonge. Be sure to drop by next Boxing Day to give us your opinion (or you can just give it now, as I think we know it's a forgone conclusion).

    Seriously though, I find the shopping environment of Yorkville village considerably more charming than most north american "upscale" districts.



    Yea...Montreal is a nice jazz town for 10 days out of the year...Toronto is a great jazz town 365 days of the year (without even counting its multiple jazz festivals). The fact that you need to watch reruns of the festival until the next one comes around is funny (and sad at the same time).
     
  6. audiophilia

    audiophilia Senior member

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    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    Don't you get tired? Ever?

    Are you Diefenbaker's love child? Just wondering?
     
  7. freshcutgrass

    freshcutgrass Senior member

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    Jul 5, 2008
    No...but you're warm.

    I'm Maggie & Castro's secret bastard.

    Here's my mommy being a good Canadian, and shown' her beaver....


    [​IMG]
     
  8. SField

    SField Senior member

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    6,278
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008


    Yea...Montreal is a nice jazz town for 10 days out of the year...Toronto is a great jazz town 365 days of the year (without even counting its multiple jazz festivals). The fact that you need to watch reruns of the festival until the next one comes around is funny (and sad at the same time).


    I did apologize to you earlier but you are just looking like a raving lunatic of late. You've made these two lengthy, pretty weird posts about some "game", enumerating all the different kinds of 'hate' in Canada and all the typical arguments against toronto. Clearly, you've thought a great deal about this, and quite obviously, you've had this argument a few hundred times.

    As Kwilk says, no one really cares, and you're trying to make this a global issue while it really isn't. Also, Yorkville's little shopping district is about a quarter of a kilometer long. I don't exactly see how that compares to any other major city in the world. Soho alone vastly outstrips Toronto's understocked, limited, overpriced inventories. In fact, there are malls in the united states where you could get more than you can get in that little area.

    Again, I don't exactly care either way. I don't live in either city and never will. My personal ego is not inextricably linked with the quality of my city, and frankly if it was, anywhere I've lived for a long period of time would easily smash the living shit out of Toronto (or Montreal for that matter) so I suppose that isn't a worry either. A number of people have talked about your defence of Toronto as being a little manic, bordering on psychotic. Just take it easy and be happy about where you live. Clearly you think it's incredible so there's no need to keep this discussion going. If people keep needling you in a way that you think lacks factual veracity, it's because they think you're acting kind of nuts and they find your extensive rants entertaining.
     
  9. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    Are you Diefenbaker's love child? Just wondering?

    Oh, I think "love" has never had anything to do with his life, nor ever been part of it. It would explain much of what we read, wouldn't it?
     
  10. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    Location:
    Southern California
    It was mentioned that Toronto has a better ballet company. Perhaps that's true for classical stuff (though NBoC has had its share of trouble), but Montreal has more interesting and equally accomplished dance companies: Les Grands Ballets Canadiens and La La La Human Steps, to name two.

    --Andre
     
  11. ChicagoRon

    ChicagoRon Senior member

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    I'm probably a little late on the train here.... but I ate at a restaurant in Toronto called Mildred Pierce once and it was quite good. Inexpensive French fare, wonderful torchon of foie gras with a quince paste as an appetizer, fantastic salad, and a succulent duck breast for an entree. It was also fairly inexpensive for the quality.
     
  12. audiophilia

    audiophilia Senior member

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    Oh, I think "love" has never had anything to do with his life, nor ever been part of it. It would explain much of what we read, wouldn't it?

    Irony is so hard to do on the web [​IMG]
     
  13. audiophilia

    audiophilia Senior member

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    It was mentioned that Toronto has a better ballet company. Perhaps that's true for classical stuff (though NBoC has had its share of trouble), but Montreal has more interesting and equally accomplished dance companies: Les Grands Ballets Canadiens and La La La Human Steps, to name two. --Andre
    Andre, I think the NBOC is superb company, especially for the classics. I saw LGBC two years ago and was surprised at the quality and elegance of their classical technique. The men (!), were especially fine. Previously, it was 20 years prior (Four Temperaments). Was not nearly as polished as my last visit. As for La La La, Google G Spot Tornado (Zappa). Amazing moves.
     
  14. eg1

    eg1 Senior member

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    Burlington, ON
    Whooooa....you're just getting too clever for me.

    Well, the laughing smiley was supposed to indicate sharing the joke. [​IMG]


    I notice quite a few of you self-proclaimed therapists like to use the term..."the problem with..." & "your problem is..." a lot. Can I send you my address so you can bill me? I feel guilty.

    I am professionally unqualified to accept payment -- therefore you may enjoy my insights, such as you find them, gratis.

    Oh...but I am well versed in the many varied versions of Toronto hating (most of my childhood was not spent in Toronto, and I've traveled extensively). 905 hate is different from northern Ontario hate, which is different from rural Ontario hate (Prince Edward County doesn't officially hate Toronto...they just hate anybody in their county who isn't "county" ). Then there's First Nations hate. And that only takes care of a very generalized sweep Ontario.

    Peggers aren't too infected, and I've never really detected anything particular about Prairie hate.

    Alberta hate (the Bible Belt of Canada for those not in the know) is a mixture of just compulsory generalized "Canadian" Toronto hate (I believe this is subliminally taught in kindergarten in all non-Toronto schools), mixed with self-righteous born-again moral hate, separation anxiety hate (they think we are just too far away), and a healthy dose of selfish hate..."now that we are a "have" province, we don't want to give a penny to anyone else", including Albertans not worthy...hence the one-way bus tickets to Vancouver hilarity (this is not specialized Toronto hate really...more just non-Alberta hate). Edmonton is noticeably more easy going about this than Calgary (who thinks a rodeo is the cultural highlight of Canada).

    B.C. hate is again some separation anxiety hate, plus they assume we are just all tight-assed Bay Street Bankers. Vancouverites tend to get really pissed off if they actually make it to Toronto to find this stereotype a myth, and there are actually way more bohemian, arty types here than BC, although reprogramming seems to be very easy once they return to Vancouver.

    Maritimers don't tend to hate anybody. They may be a bit "wary" of Toronto, but would much rather just make fun of you. I find Maritimers expect to be a fish out of water when they hit the "Big Smoke" ahead of time, but also expect to get a job. (A big Canadian FAIL to you, if you haven't seen Goin' Down the Road).

    There's a big difference between Quebec hate and Montreal hate. Quebec (sans Mtl) hates Toronto by default, as it's the alpha city of english Canada, in Ontario, which also contains the federal govt. This isn't silly hate like the rest of the country...it's some serious, emotional hate.

    Montreal is not dominated by english hate (in fact, they have just as much of an issue with the rest of Que). Their superior attitude actually had some basis back a million years ago when the two cities actually had something resembling a rivalry going on. But Toronto has left them so far in the dust, that we just couldn't be bothered anymore. They still think this is going on of course, and realizing we just don't see them as any serious competition really gets them mad. To add insult to injury, we don't even make an effort to return the hate...we actually like Montreal and say so. The ones that see this as a condescending pat on the head get extra special crispy pissed. he he


    Evidently I have "misunderestimated" you -- I'll leave denizens of the various other regions to address the specific segments that refer to them. I am, naturally, interested in a more thorough description of "905 hate" ... [​IMG]


    I think you make for a fabulous suburbanite, but from where I'm standing...you can keep it too (and at least it isn't Milton or Brampton).

    While I understand that you intend this as "damning with faint praise", I will take it as a compliment nonetheless. The very unspecialness of Burlington is what makes it desireable for my purposes -- should you wonder why, I refer you merely to T.S Eliot's comments about poetry, emotion, and personality ... [​IMG]
     
  15. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    freshcutgrass makes my head hurt. Has anyone actually read his rants in their entirety?
     
  16. SField

    SField Senior member

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    freshcutgrass makes my head hurt. Has anyone actually read his rants in their entirety?

    I always skim.
     
  17. freshcutgrass

    freshcutgrass Senior member

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    Are you under the delusion that apologizing entitles you to continue posting nonsense at will, without opposition? That's what bugs you (and a couple others)...you expect to get away with it, and act like babies when you don't. What exactly were you apologizing for? If I ever said anything about you personally that was either untrue or hurt your feelings...I apologize....push your buttons a bit...sure, but be nasty...not my style.

    But I certainly don't apologize for disagreeing with you.


    That humour was not intended for you, and was destined to go over your head.


    Ah...Kwilk. Isn't this the same guy who has the same response to everything that mentions Canada..."it's Canada, who gives a fuck" ? You'll just have to excuse me for having the same attitude about Kwilk. There's nothing "global" about it...you typed something...I disagreed with it. Don't like it, then perhaps thinking twice before typing nonsense might be a reasonable suggestion. Just because you think being anonymous on some chat board means it's a free-for-all.


    Hmmm...I'm sure Yonge, Bloor, Ave Rd, Davenport is a slightly larger in area than you suggest....the Bloor-Yorkville BIA describes it as 27 blocks, over 700 shops and millions of sqft of retail space, so I don't think it's quite the slouch you make out.

    But I wasn't talking about that anyway...I said it had a more pleasant and charming atmosphere than I found on Madison, Fifth, Mag Mile, Rodeo. It's an actual 150 year old village, with leafy, narrow streets/walkways/mews, Yorkville Park, old converted victorian houses, a nice mixed-use (retail, food, spas, galleries, hotels, residential), plus festivals that give it a certain "buzz" (Sante, Ice fest, Tiff, etc).


    Well, then clearly you haven't been able to keep up. As I've mentioned already, not agreeing with some of the the absurd comments that it "sucks" does not ipso facto mean I'm saying it is "incredible" or the "best in the world". And you're calling me manic and psychotic? Com'on.
     
  18. freshcutgrass

    freshcutgrass Senior member

    Messages:
    690
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    Is there an emoticon to get the point across that you should know that I know you know?
    You must learn to accept and embrace my masochistic tendencies.
    Well, you should. Joking is fun, but I know first hand that some people are just not "wired" for inner-city life (depends on what point they are in life, and what kind of city it is). People gotta live where they are happy...my opinion doesn't matter. Personally, I like the country, and I like the inner city. The Burbs represent nothing but compromise to me, and therefore would drive me batty. I'm by no means a tree-hugger, but I do believe in the benefits that sustainable living brings, so I also hate the burbs on those philosophical grounds as well.
    Well, this means I'm going to have to start getting very specific, as the 905 "micro inter-regional" hate is quite complex. My work has seen me extensively in the 905 and beyond (I'm in the geo-exhange business). The margin or error is probably small, as I get a good exposure to a cross section of the demographic (home owners, retailers, developers, trades people...even their dreaded offspring and pets). Take Milton for instance...their hate is just plain old simple racist hate. Toronto is the epitome of "ethnic", and that's about the extent of it. Milton is like the white supremest capital of the 905. What I've heard come out of the mouths of people in Milton reminds me of the kind of stuff I used to hear as a kid in small-town southern Ontario...politically correct as a concept, has somehow bypassed Milton completely. When I hear this, i do what does not come naturally to me...I say nothing....it would be pointless. Mississauga...the city of mall-envy. This keeps them wary of Toronto's malls on a constant basis, but they feel pretty good about Square One, so these days they have been laying low. It helps them by feeling pretty smug about that walking mummy of a mayor they have. Will be pretty short lived though, as they are now switching their focus to transit-envy. Since building a "downtown" based on a mall has been highly successful in terms of development (if not in terms of charm), the idea that they "forgot" to build any transit infrastructure for a city that is 3/4 of a million people, and still growing fast is beginning to sound like it may not have been a good idea after all in terms of urban planning. Property tax is already higher then toronto, and will get much worse if they plan to spend the mega-billions it takes to build. In the meantime, traffic is worse in Missy than downtown toronto by a wide margin. Note...south Miss does not count (Port Credit, Clarkson, Lorne Park)...I put them in the Oakville category (below). Oakville...they are too secure and confident to hate. Oakville may no longer be the "richest city in Canada", but somebody forgot to tell them. Oakville likes being Oakville, and is quite happy with its proximity to Toronto (far enough to not effect it, but close enough to get to when they want). Brampton...they don't have an opinion one way or the other. They are too busy trying to avoid the reality that they live a city devoid of a single positive aspect. It has no culture (high or low), don't seem interested in any sports, it doesn't have a single structure of any architectural note, and doesn't even have any interesting natural geography. Brampton should be bulldozed, and it's inhabitants relocated to Mississauga, and reforested for annexation as estates and farms for Caledon. Caledon/King City... no hate there...no threat from Toronto out here...it's rural. Plus, most are just Torontonians with estates or hobby farms. Georgina...can't hate...there are no people here....just cows, horses and golf courses. Livestock don't hate Toronto since they got rid of the Stockyards (although they do still have nightmares). Vaughan/Richmond Hill/Markham...the hate is focused on the 905 Chinese lifestyle vs the old-school 416 Chinese lifestyle. Pickering...gotta borrow a phrase from Kwilk on this one...it's Pickering...who gives a fuck. Oh, so your probably wondering about Burlington? Well, Burlington is a special case (the basket kind I'm afraid). Burlington only suffers from low level "nervous" hate. The reason for this, is they are hopelessly confused. Are they part of the 905...yes are they part of the CMA...no are they part of the GTA...yes. officially part of Durham, but unofficially part of Hamilton. You can't figure out how to hate Toronto, because you can't figure out if you are even a Toronto suburb or not....you're in some kind of bizarre Golden Horseshoe Twilight Zone. There you are, nice bucolic, confident Oakville on one side...a "real" gritty but well established blue collar city on the other side (and trying not to notice redneck Milton to the north of you). You can't really even embrace the lake, as it's only feature is the dreaded "Skyway". Burlington needs to be sliced up and the pieces sold off to the highest bidders in the surrounding municipalities and put you poor confused people out of your misery. Now please...do not ask me to start evaluating the the inner 416 self-hate.
     
  19. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    Hmmm...I'm sure Yonge, Bloor, Ave Rd, Davenport is a slightly larger in area than you suggest....the Bloor-Yorkville BIA describes it as 27 blocks, over 700 shops and millions of sqft of retail space, so I don't think it's quite the slouch you make out.


    I think he's talking about high-end shopping. After all, where can you get EGs in Toronto?
     
  20. fwiffo

    fwiffo Senior member

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    Damn - I didn't know this mushroomed to 7 pages.

    I went to all those places and I'm surprised no one mentioned more financial district places like Far Niente, Ki, Reds, Vertical, and Tundra. I find most high end places in Toronto serve pretty typical fare (fish, pasta, some kind of meat with a claim it's wild, vegetarian, etc.)

    If I want a quiet place, I usually try something like Starfish. (The Thirsty Traveler does it after all!) Susur Lee is an experience - last time I went he cooks whatever he can find at T&T (or some other place) that day so you have to eat his menu.

    But uhh...great - now Torontonians are likely going to just scare non-Torontonians away [​IMG]
     

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