The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[9thsymph]

How awesome would the world be if all independents produced the exact same, optimally beautiful watch?

 

[TheFoo]

They are damned if they do, damned if they don’t though. If they make something traditional they’ll get ripped for being derivative or uninteresting.

Is that really true? Many of the most successful independents are more reserved/traditional in aesthetic: Dufour, Roger Smith, Journe, Ferrier, etc. Roger Dubuis’s traditional Patek-like watches have become very collectible whereas the much larger, more loudly styled watches that followed have fallen into complete irrelevance. And what about Akrivia? The classically styled Chronometre Contemporain stands out as the most desirable.

 

[TheFoo]

How awesome would the world be if all independents produced the exact same, optimally beautiful watch?

A wristwatch is a thing you strap onto your wrist and have to use to tell the time. The range of “optimal” is not all that wide.

Just watch. Most of these hot independents will be forgotten 10 years from now. And people will look back at the more obnoxiously designed examples with disgusted amusement.

 

[9thsymph]

A wristwatch is a thing you strap onto your wrist and have to use to tell the time. The range of “optimal” is not all that wide.

True. But even in traversing these narrow margins of difference - there is a lot of difference to experience? And the way makers navigate difference becomes a “value”?

 

[TheFoo]

Speaking of independents and Akrivia, I got the itch this morning to look into a Rexhep Rexhepi Chronometre Contemporain. Second version in platinum and stepped enamel dial:

Stupid me. The entire series of 25 has long been allocated away.

But then I did more reading and research. Turns out, Akrivia started out using ebauches from BNB Concept (where Rexhep Rexhepi previously worked). The same movements can be found in Hublot watches. And Akrivia advertised the movements as “in-house”! A fraudulent lie no matter how you cut it. They had to take down all their Instagram and other marketing content making in-house claims. As of the past couple of months, Rexhep has said in interviews that they are now “developing” their movements in-house—code for decorating and maybe assembling movements that are made elsewhere, which Akrivia may have had a hand in specifying. Super shady ****.

The hype train may be carrying too much momentum to care about such details, but in the long term these sorts of lies will deeply undermine reputation and value.

 

[Neville Southall]

The main problem with most independents is that make really ugly watches (e.g. the above). They tend to be maximalist or at very least different looking merely for sake of looking different.

For once, I agree with you. That’s true across the board. I’ve never seen an F.P. Journe that wasn’t ******* atrocious looking. Trash.
* I’m legit not being sarcastic *

 

[TheFoo]

For once, I agree. That’s true across the board. I’ve never seen an F.P. Journe that wasn’t ******* atrocious looking. Trash.
* I’m legit not being sarcastic *

I think Journe actually makes very attractive watches. Some are better than others, but overall the styling is very well thought out and executed with conviction.

 

[Neville Southall]

I think Journe actually makes very attractive watches. Some are better than others, but overall the styling is very well thought out and executed with conviction.

Well, fair. We’re talking about looks, which is unequivocally subjective. Journe is caca to me, but a lot of people like that ****.

 

[Texasmade]

Well, fair. We’re talking about looks, which is unequivocally subjective. Journe is caca to me, but a lot of people like that ****.

I like the case shape and the fact that his watches aren't some 14mm+ ***** dress watch. I don't really like the aesthetics of his dials though.

edit- apparently we can't say f@tty

 

[Neville Southall]

I like the case shape and the fact that his watches aren't some 14mm+ ***** dress watch. I don't really like the aesthetics of his dials though.

edit- apparently we can't say f@tty

Sure. Like I said, a lot of people like Journe. Nothing wrong with that. A few years ago, I was offered a Chronometre Blue at a boutique. It was right before people starting pretending like that was a cool watch. Not a day goes by that I’ve thought about it. Watch looked and felt cheap. Hard pass.

 

[am55]

The main problem with most independents is that make really ugly watches (e.g. the above). They tend to be maximalist or at very least different looking merely for sake of looking different.

Plenty of independents in the East as well are focused on the classical experience. This Patek for example has inspired...

(the rising sun patterned "cotes de Japan" on the back are a nice touch to "take over" the design)

and:

 

[TheFoo]

I like the case shape and the fact that his watches aren't some 14mm+ ***** dress watch. I don't really like the aesthetics of his dials though.

edit- apparently we can't say f@tty

Journe watches are not as complicated as ~14-15mm watches from Patek, Lange, VC, etc. Most Journes have zero or one major complication. The only model that has more than one (the Astronomic Souverain) is … 14mm.

 

[Texasmade]

Journe watches are not as complicated as ~14-15mm watches from Patek, Lange, VC, etc. Most Journes have zero or one major complication. The only model that has more than one (the Astronomic Souverain) is … 14mm.

And that probably explains why his watches aren't fat as ****.

 

[TheFoo]

Plenty of independents in the East as well are focused on the classical experience. This Patek for example has inspired...

View attachment 1738091

View attachment 1738092

(the rising sun patterned "cotes de Japan" on the back are a nice touch to "take over" the design)

and:

View attachment 1738093

Yeah, but those Japanese independents are not watchmakers. They decorate pedestrian ebauches, put them in steel cases, and charge a price equal to what you’d pay for a better watch in precious metal from Patek or Lange. Unreal.

 

[9thsymph]

For once, I agree with you. That’s true across the board. I’ve never seen an F.P. Journe that wasn’t ******* atrocious looking. Trash.
* I’m legit not being sarcastic *

Not surprising that the one time you agree with foo, you end up being totally, absolutely, unmistakably wrong-headed. You also dialed in the perfect amount of provoke-by-calling-an-obviously-not-trash-watchmaker-trash vibe. Maybe you guys are more alike then anyone might have previously suspected? ;-)