The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[dtwb]

Definitely a departure from Aquanaut/Nautilus territory, but:
The 3-watch collection, as it currently stands (having finally picked up a Nomos this afternoon). Tudor Black Bay 58 Navy Blue, Rolex Explorer I, Nomos Minimatik Champagner. All purchased over the last 7 months from The Hour Glass in Australia, who are absolutely fabulous to work with.
I feel like each serves a distinct purpose, although all obviously time-only. I probably need a date function now, maybe a further complication. I've been daydreaming about a Datejust 36, or an F.P. Journe...

 

[Drek Galloche]

I wonder how many customers just offer extra cash to the AD and get their piece without all that nonsense? With prices being triple the MSRP on many PP there is a lot of room there for AD to get a nice MSRP + bonus and still make it under the market price for the customer.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I wonder how many customers just offer extra cash to the AD and get their piece without all that nonsense? With prices being triple the MSRP on many PP there is a lot of room there for AD to get a nice MSRP + bonus and still make it under the market price for the customer.

They may be contractually limited with doing this, at least above board. I suppose one could offer a separate envelope with small and large bills but then the AG’s office may want to have a word with you.

This is akin to the lawsuit faced by CD Peacock. They are accused of selling high demand pieces to gray market dealers under the table.

 

[classicalthunde]

They may be contractually limited with doing this, at least above board. I suppose one could offer a separate envelope with small and large bills but then the AG’s office may want to have a word with you.

This is akin to the lawsuit faced by CD Peacock. They are accused of selling high demand pieces to gray market dealers under the table.

If you're going to break the rules and risk your AD status, why would you do it at a discount for significantly below market price?

 

[NakedYoga]

Phenomenal HK watches write up from a recent traveler :https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/the-pleasures-and-contradictions-of-grey-market-watch-shopping-in-southern-china-–-mainland-wet-markets-hk-grey-rolex-realities-and-coffin-homes.5324829/

That guy also recently wrote an interesting post about being the victim of an attempted mugging for his Rolex in Paris. Seems to be an entertaining storyteller, regardless of whether one things he might be embellishing or just outright BSing.

 

[Texasmade]

They may be contractually limited with doing this, at least above board. I suppose one could offer a separate envelope with small and large bills but then the AG’s office may want to have a word with you.

This is akin to the lawsuit faced by CD Peacock. They are accused of selling high demand pieces to gray market dealers under the table.

Someone on TRF said they were contacted by youtuber Watch Eric (he used to be associated with CRM Jewelers on youtube) about getting some really hot PP model BNIB with name on papers if they were willing to pay. I'm pretty sure it happens all the time but the AD and middle man are smart enough to not break any laws while doing it.

 

[bbconair]

Yep, pretty much. Even if you buy other items from an AD, there's no guarantee that you're even going to get an Aquanaut from them.

ok thanks. i'm OK paying a 3x markup given how the market continues to move. i guess my main issue is whether or not something online is BNIB, or "used". i guess it wouldn't really make sense to flip these given how limited they are - so my understanding is that anything online will have some, if minimal, wear and tear

There is no “guarantee” in terms of a contract, but you can certainly make a deal with your AD to get an Aquanaut contingent on other spend. That’s how I got mine.

thanks - and sorry for not going through the thread, but is there any general guidelines for what a deal might look like? are we talking about $50k of investments before the aquanaut becomes available, or $100k? the biggest issue is outside of a few models, my interest in PP is pretty limited, and the ones i do like are the obvious brand name ones.

 

[Texasmade]

ok thanks. i'm OK paying a 3x markup given how the market continues to move. i guess my main issue is whether or not something online is BNIB, or "used". i guess it wouldn't really make sense to flip these given how limited they are - so my understanding is that anything online will have some, if minimal, wear and tear

If you're going to pay market price, you should reach out to various reputable GM dealers and ask for BNIB name on papers. It's doable but expensive.

 

[pmeis]

I wonder how many customers just offer extra cash to the AD and get their piece without all that nonsense? With prices being triple the MSRP on many PP there is a lot of room there for AD to get a nice MSRP + bonus and still make it under the market price for the customer.

I think a large part of the reasoning for the ADs to package goods is that they have overall purchasing requirements to maintain their contracts with brands. So while I'm sure they'd just love to take an extra $50k in cash, moving $50k in jewelry or ladies Twenty-4's is ultimately more valuable to them maintaining their relationship with their suppliers.

 

[RSS]

While most of my friends and relatives were all “what the ****, get a luxury SUV like everyone else”—uggh, vomit—my dad looked at the 911 and said: “This one is for making memories and keeping forever.”

Who says you can't get both ... and a luxury sedan or two? Well, I suppose the pocket book might ... but assuming it approves. And given that some here talk of spending 100K +/- on a watch at the drop of a hat ... one might assume more than a few can. Of course in NYC one doesn't really need any car ... so the fun one makes more sense (to me). But for those who live primarily in the country ... more is required.

But back to watches. My father left me instructions to take some of his money and buy something fun. I'm awaiting the arrival of one of the oversized JLC ultrathin watches. Decided to go understated ... well, somewhat ... but fresh ... in a way that still turns heads. Were it a Cushing sister it would be more of a Babe Mortimer Paley. A PP would be more of a Minnie Astor Fosburgh ... $$$ and refined ... but a tad dull.

 

[Texasmade]

Speedy Tuesday moon landing anniversary so I’m wearing my FOIS

 

[TheFoo]

ok thanks. i'm OK paying a 3x markup given how the market continues to move. i guess my main issue is whether or not something online is BNIB, or "used". i guess it wouldn't really make sense to flip these given how limited they are - so my understanding is that anything online will have some, if minimal, wear and tear



thanks - and sorry for not going through the thread, but is there any general guidelines for what a deal might look like? are we talking about $50k of investments before the aquanaut becomes available, or $100k? the biggest issue is outside of a few models, my interest in PP is pretty limited, and the ones i do like are the obvious brand name ones.

Depends on your region and how you market yourself.

Dealers in bigger cities have more, wealthier customers and therefore generally require more spend, but they also get more watches. Further, how well you get along with the dealer, your frequency of visits, and—most importantly—how convincing you are as an ongoing, repeat customer are significant factors.

As a general rule of thumb, I start with looking at the potential profit you’d hypothetically make from flipping the watch in question. For an Aquanaut, that’s $25-30K. That is effectively cash the dealer is handing to you by selling you the watch at MSRP. View it as a discount offered to you on your other watch purchases. On $100K of other spend, it would be the equivalent of 25-30% off. Not totally unreasonable and matches what I’ve seen: roughly $100K may be enough in smaller or mid-size markets with moderate rapport, but expect the threshold to be somewhat higher in bigger markets unless you look super-promising as a client.

Then, once you get the ball rolling on a series of purchases, it often becomes a more fluid situation. The Aquanaut I just got from my AD was offered more or less out of the blue. I had a casual text conversation with him mentioning that I think it would make the ideal “beater” Patek for the beach. He laughed. Within a couple weeks, he texted me to offer me the watch. Of course, this is fully because he believes there are a number of other watches I am going to be buying from him in the future.

By the way, Aquanauts have catapulted in value this past year. Much easier to get one relatively recently.

If you're going to pay market price, you should reach out to various reputable GM dealers and ask for BNIB name on papers. It's doable but expensive.

Don’t pay $60K for a 5167. Doable but stupid is more like it.

 

[Texasmade]

Don’t pay $60K for a 5167. Doable but stupid is more like it.

Not really if OP has the money and doesn't want to play games or wait.

2 years ago it was stupid to pay $40k for a 5711 or an FPJ Chronometre Bleu. I remember in 2017, the white Rolex Daytona was selling for under $20k. Now those prices seem like bargains.

 

[bbconair]

Depends on your region and how you market yourself.

Dealers in bigger cities have more, wealthier customers and therefore generally require more spend, but they also get more watches. Further, how well you get along with the dealer, your frequency of visits, and—most importantly—how convincing you are as an ongoing, repeat customer are significant factors.

As a general rule of thumb, I start with looking at the potential profit you’d hypothetically make from flipping the watch in question. For an Aquanaut, that’s $25-30K. That is effectively cash the dealer is handing to you by selling you the watch at MSRP. View it as a discount offered to you on your other watch purchases. On $100K of other spend, it would be the equivalent of 25-30% off. Not totally unreasonable and matches what I’ve seen: roughly $100K may be enough in smaller or mid-size markets with moderate rapport, but expect the threshold to be somewhat higher in bigger markets unless you look super-promising as a client.

Then, once you get the ball rolling on a series of purchases, it often becomes a more fluid situation. The Aquanaut I just got from my AD was offered more or less out of the blue. I had a casual text conversation with him mentioning that I think it would make the ideal “beater” Patek for the beach. He laughed. Within a couple weeks, he texted me to offer me the watch. Of course, this is fully because he believes there are a number of other watches I am going to be buying from him in the future.

By the way, Aquanauts have catapulted in value this past year. Much easier to get one relatively recently.



Don’t pay $60K for a 5167. Doable but stupid is more like it.

thanks - all makes sense. only follow-up is your last two points. value of aquanaut has catapulted in value this past year - why would it be easier to get one relatively recently? because it is seller's market and many people are trying to unload it?

and why not $60k for a 5167? that's the list price i see, but i think you're saying that with any leg work i can get one below that, which i agree

 

[TheFoo]

Not really if OP has the money and doesn't want to play games or wait.

2 years ago it was stupid to pay $40k for a 5711 or an FPJ Chronometre Bleu. I remember in 2017, the white Rolex Daytona was selling for under $20k. Now those prices seem like bargains.

Again, it’s not “playing games” (i.e. unpredictable trickery) as long as you understand the dynamics, advantage yourself the best way possible, and manage your dealings carefully.

Market prices on hot models have continued to rise over the past few years, yes, but they remain high from a long-term perspective. Also, watches like the Daytona and Aquanaut are great watches at retail. But for $20K or $30K, there are a lot of nicer watches than a Daytona. $60K for an Aquanaut is ludicrous when the same money gets you a Lange chronograph in precious metal.

thanks - all makes sense. only follow-up is your last two points. value of aquanaut has catapulted in value this past year - why would it be easier to get one relatively recently? because it is seller's market and many people are trying to unload it?

and why not $60k for a 5167? that's the list price i see, but i think you're saying that with any leg work i can get one below that, which i agree

Let me clarify.

First of all, the MSRP on a 5167A is $22K, not $60K. The latter is the secondary market price.

Second, what I meant was that prior to this year, the secondary market prices for the Aquanaut were substantially lower and so it was much easier to get one from an AD. You didn’t need to spend anywhere near $100K. Maybe half, if that.