The Super Bowl XLII thread

[Bradford]

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

Well, if it wasn't for Neil O'donnell throwing those two bone-headed int's, Steelers would've probably won that game. SB MVP Larry Brown really used his award to get ridiculous money from Al Davis for two seasons thereafter.

FIXED

Also - Trent Dilfer is the Gino Torretta of Super Bowl winning quarterbacks.

 

[lawyerdad]

Slim,
You ignorant slut
QUOTE]

Fixed. Much pithier this way, no?

 

[countdemoney]

Hey, I like the Tokyo Slim. We just have more fun when we disagree.

Besides, he's gonna take me to task in a moment.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Originally Posted by countdemoney

Slim,
You ignorant slut

Fixed. Much pithier this way, no?

I hate pith.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

I hate pith.

Stay upwind of iammatt, then.
http://www.styleforum.net/showthread...ighlight=fairy

 

[countdemoney]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Stay upwind of iammatt, then.

It's easy to grin / When your ship comes in / And you've got the stock market beat. / But the man worthwhile, / Is the man who can smile, / When his shorts are too tight in the seat.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by countdemoney

Slim, I addressed the same points you raise in another thread. The most important rule is that you cannot look at motion video during the game.
Please explain how a guy with a handheld video cassette recorder, standing in the endzone recording could be showing anyone motion video of anything during the game he's recording? Clearly they were analyzing the tapes post-game.

The standard example of this rule in effect is that you can show still pictures of a coverage pre and post snap, but you cannot show a video of the safeties rotating.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about people with telephoto still pictures. I'm talking about the assistants whose job it is to stand up in the booth and record ON VIDEO the opposing sideline. Why do you think coaches cover their mouths when they mic the play up to the booth to be relayed to the QB? Coaches know they are always being recorded. Someone in every stadium is always watching. It's standard practice.

There is more than one rule being broken by the pats videotaping in game. The original penalty was not harsh enough, and the pats have a tainted legacy that warrants further scrutiny.

Are you just saying this because you hate the Pats, or do you have any particular insight into Roger Goodell's office that I don't? If the Pats are/were provably more guilty than has already been exposed - they deserve to be punished. The original penalty (The loss of a first round draft pick and a monetary fine) were handed down by the Commissioner after checking with the rules committee (which is comprised of other owners and head coaches throughout the league). Basically, judgement by their peers. If nobody can prove that they are/were/have been/will cheat - there should be no punishment, since every NFL (and undoubtedly every professional sports team in America) does whatever they can get away with to increase their chances of winning. They would be a pitiful, sorry excuse for a team if they didn't. And don't even get me started on the stupid Senate hearings. The difference between videotaping a game and taking steroids/drugs should be pretty obvious. Steroids/HGH/drugs are a federally controlled substance. Videocameras are not. If arbitrary rules of a JOB are broken, arbitrary punishments within your JOB should occur. The fact that a SENATE committee wants to talk about this is a waste of time, IMO. They should stick to subjects which violate laws or concern the government. They might as well start having Senate hearings on people who take long lunches.

If the rumor is true about videotaping the rams pre superbowl walk thru, that title should be stripped.

If it could be proven that it occured, you'd think someone would have said something in the past 7 years.

 

[countdemoney]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

Please explain how a guy with a handheld video cassette recorder, standing in the endzone recording could be showing anyone motion video of anything during the game he's recording? Clearly they were analyzing the tapes post-game.

The charge was that the video assistant would tape in the first half and then bring the camera to the locker room to show the signs to look for.

Surely you've seen the screens that these camera have, or how easy it is to hook them up to larger screen for immediate playback.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

Yeah, but I'm not talking about people with telephoto still pictures. I'm talking about the assistants whose job it is to stand up in the booth and record ON VIDEO the opposing sideline. Why do you think coaches cover their mouths when they mic the play up to the booth to be relayed to the QB? Coaches know they are always being recorded. Someone in every stadium is always watching. It's standard practice.

You can't use motion video in game (outside of the big scoreboards). Period.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

Are you just saying this because you hate the Pats, or do you have any particular insight into Roger Goodell's office that I don't? If the Pats are/were provably more guilty than has already been exposed - they deserve to be punished. The original penalty (The loss of a first round draft pick and a monetary fine) were handed down by the Commissioner after checking with the rules committee (which is comprised of other owners and head coaches throughout the league). Basically, judgement by their peers.

I think the long history of cheating warrants more investigation. Goodell's office asked the pats to turn over everything and the pats said they did. That was the extent of it.

Second, no one else knows what was destroyed. If there were tapes of an important game, wouldn' that warrant further scrutiny?

Roger wants to keep the good times rolling. He's not interested in anything beyond appearances in this.

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

If nobody can prove that they are/were/have been/will cheat - there should be no punishment, since every NFL (and undoubtedly every professional sports team in America) does whatever they can get away with to increase their chances of winning. They would be a pitiful, sorry excuse for a team if they didn't.


And don't even get me started on the stupid Senate hearings. The difference between videotaping a game and taking steroids/drugs should be pretty obvious. Steroids/HGH/drugs are a federally controlled substance. Videocameras are not. If arbitrary rules of a JOB are broken, arbitrary punishments within your JOB should occur. The fact that a SENATE committee wants to talk about this is a waste of time, IMO. They should stick to subjects which violate laws or concern the government. They might as well start having Senate hearings on people who take long lunches.


If it could be proven that it occured, you'd think someone would have said something in the past 7 years.

Thank you Coach Glanville. Pushing the rules is one thing, outright and wilful breaking of them is another.

The senate matters because the NFL has an anti-trust exemption from the US government. If the game is rigged, it's a real problem.

Just talk to the USFL investors if you want more history.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by countdemoney

The charge was that the video assistant would tape in the first half and then bring the camera to the locker room to show the signs to look for. Surely you've seen the screens that these camera have, or how easy it is to hook them up to larger screen for immediate playback.
So... how does the magical cameraman in the endzone, filming the up-to-a-half-dozen defensive signs coming off the bench for every play determine who exactly to pay attention to? You DO realize that an NFL regular game halftime is 15 minutes right? Isn't it a little much to expect that in the roughtly 12 minutes or so that you aren't running to and fro from the field, that your entire first half, which probably consists of 6-15 defensive series, of 3-15 formations and 5-20 different signals (depending on the team) given per formation to be so readily analyzed? At bare minimum, you would be looking at roughly 90 different signals given by a handful of people on a bare minimum of 18 defensive plays. Seems like a little bit of a stretch. Maybe I'm the only guy here who's ever sat and watched an NFL coaching staff at work... but I highly doubt that you could come remotely close to doing what you claim the Pats were doing. It would take a supercomputer to pull that off in real time during a game.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

For those of you unfamiliar with how defensive signals are concealed, here are just a FEW of the things I've noticed teams doing or heard of them doing.

1: There are no teams in the NFL with fewer than 2 defensive signal callers on any play. There will always be at least a dummy and a hot caller. The most I've ever seen in person was Bill Parcell's Dallas team, during the MNF game here in Seattle a handful of years ago, they had 4-6 defensive signal callers on every play.

2: In most cases, the hot caller would rotate based on a certain pre-set order. Or before the defensive series starts, the defensive captain is told who his hot read is.

3: The hot caller may not rotate in a preset order. Signal callers on a few teams use colored wristbands, or colored cards, which they switch randomly during each drive. During the 1stQ, the hot read is blue, 2ndQ the hot read is green, etc.

4: Parcells also reportedly toyed with the idea of using an armband, like QB's use, for his defensive captains. The order of the plays would change every Q, and the defensive plays signaled from the sidelines were nothing more than ways of disguising numerals in hand gestures. So, theoretically, on a Parcell's defense, you'd look at a line of four people giving hand gestures, the one in the blue wristband was the first quarter hot read. His signal was 4-2-2. You look down at your wristband and go fourth column, second group, second play. The next quarter, that same number would be something else, because your defensive playlist would change.

Are you beginning to see why "catching up" with the first half signal calling in the locker room at halftime is absurd? You'd have to sort through and cross-reference on film all this BS in 10-12 minutes TOPS to be able to get any info out to your team by the third quarter. I highly doubt if you would be able to figure any signals out inside of an hour.

I'm sure that not all coaches are as paranoid as Bill Parcells, but thats the problem, every week you have to figure out a new scheme, and it could be simple or it could be complex. Maybe someone on your team used to play for the opponent and might have some idea of what certain signals mean, but there's no promise that the coach will use the same system as last year, and even if it does, a smart coach's system will use some sort of basic one-time encryption method, like a play sheet. The whole recording/halftime codebreaking scenario is REALLY far fetched IMO.

 

[JBZ]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

There was no difficulty for Dilfer, the Seahawks snapped him up within a week of him being released by the Ravens.

I see that you are right, and my memory is failing. The surprising thing about Dilfer was that he was released by Baltimore following the Super Bowl victory. He had just won a Super Bowl, and was popular in Baltimore.

 

[life_interrupts]

Originally Posted by dopey

In my book "the worst quarterback to win a SB" is a guy who is carried by the rest of his team. Manning had a lot of help in the SB from his defense and from a great catch at the right time by Tyree, but he was not carried. He did his job and led his team the way a champion QB is supposed to.
Bradshaw benefited from arguably one of the greatest defenses of all time. Plus he had one of the best running backs ever in a run-oriented offense. Bradshaw was adequate and good in two SBs, and damn near awful in the other two. They won those two despite him. And I love the 70s Steelers and the mythology. And Ambulance Chaser, I'd totally erased the putrid performance of Ben Rothlisberger (sp?) against the Seahawks from my mind. I just think of the Bus getting a ring and the Steelers getting one for the thumb. Mark Rypien was a stud in the '91-'92 season. He was mediocre the rest of his career. Trent Dilfer is a bum.

 

[romafan]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

For those of you unfamiliar with how defensive signals are concealed, here are just a FEW of the things I've noticed teams doing or heard of them doing.

1: There are no teams in the NFL with fewer than 2 defensive signal callers on any play. There will always be at least a dummy and a hot caller. The most I've ever seen in person was Bill Parcell's Dallas team, during the MNF game here in Seattle a handful of years ago, they had 4-6 defensive signal callers on every play.

2: In most cases, the hot caller would rotate based on a certain pre-set order. Or before the defensive series starts, the defensive captain is told who his hot read is.

3: The hot caller may not rotate in a preset order. Signal callers on a few teams use colored wristbands, or colored cards, which they switch randomly during each drive. During the 1stQ, the hot read is blue, 2ndQ the hot read is green, etc.

4: Parcells also reportedly toyed with the idea of using an armband, like QB's use, for his defensive captains. The order of the plays would change every Q, and the defensive plays signaled from the sidelines were nothing more than ways of disguising numerals in hand gestures. So, theoretically, on a Parcell's defense, you'd look at a line of four people giving hand gestures, the one in the blue wristband was the first quarter hot read. His signal was 4-2-2. You look down at your wristband and go fourth column, second group, second play. The next quarter, that same number would be something else, because your defensive playlist would change.

Are you beginning to see why "catching up" with the first half signal calling in the locker room at halftime is absurd? You'd have to sort through and cross-reference on film all this BS in 10-12 minutes TOPS to be able to get any info out to your team by the third quarter. I highly doubt if you would be able to figure any signals out inside of an hour.

I'm sure that not all coaches are as paranoid as Bill Parcells, but thats the problem, every week you have to figure out a new scheme, and it could be simple or it could be complex. Maybe someone on your team used to play for the opponent and might have some idea of what certain signals mean, but there's no promise that the coach will use the same system as last year, and even if it does, a smart coach's system will use some sort of basic one-time encryption method, like a play sheet. The whole recording/halftime codebreaking scenario is REALLY far fetched IMO.

This sounds extremely complicated and confusing.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by underwearer

Greatest Game Ever

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

+ as high as I can count.

It's just too bad Montecristo isn't here to enjoy this with us!

Dr. Z agrees, and not only because he called for an upset

 

[montecristo#4]

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

+ as high as I can count.

It's just too bad Montecristo isn't here to enjoy this with us!

The Giants deserved to win the game. The Pats didn't show up and they blew it. Even still, they had a few chances to seal up the win and they couldn't make the plays. The Giants deserve credit for making amazing, freakish plays when they needed to. As a Pats fan, and having seen the Pats step up in the past in similar ways, I have to respect that.

Also, unlike the AFCCG last year, the refs weren't the deciding factor in the game. The game was more-or-less fairly officiated. So this season I'm not left with a foul taste in my mouth.

Finally, let me just say it amuses me all these fans from other teams that are so happy. If you're a Giants fan, great -- you deserve to be excited. But if you're a Colts fan, a Chargers fan, etc., it's just kind of pathetic.

I'm moving on to enjoy the off season now.... Pats still have the #8 pick in the draft and are loaded with draft picks after that. They're plenty under the cap. Pats are positioned to continue to dominate next year. In fact, I'll make the same prediction this year that I made last year: 19-0.