The Olympics

[GTR]

Originally Posted by Douglas

You are clearly entirely unaware of how the Chinese athletic system works. Children are selected for these programs when they are extremely young (2-5 years old) and are sent thousands of miles away from homes and their parents, sequestered and trained nonstop. Training takes the place of schooling, family, and all other concerns. Those that excel remain in the programs until they make it to the Olympics. This is not a secret, it is not denied by the government, and it just is what it is.

It gets results, and I'm not even making any kind of value judgment here, but if you sincerely believe there is no difference between Chinese and American athletes when it comes to how and when they dedicate themselves to a sport, and the degree of self-direction involved, then you are either entirely uneducated on the subject, or hopelessly naive.

Yes, those that want to attend a prestigious sporting academy will have to relocate as they don't exist on every street corner. Just like a someone that makes it into Harvard Medical School.

Most of the parents that push their kids into gymnastics do so because there exists an opportunity for those that succeed. For some, their underclass background means a life of laboring or rural fields. Even for the middle class that can afford an education, due to intense competition for limited places, many will not be able to complete schooling.

The parents are aware of the hard work involved, as you said its no secret, and has been the case for decades. Gymnastics is one of those sports that starts its athletes young and not just in China. Not something I would ever put my children through but there are reasons that so many choose to do so.

Didn't Tiger Woods start playing golf at 2? Look at where he is now.

 

[West24]

Originally Posted by GTR

Yes, those that want to attend a prestigious sporting academy will have to relocate as they don't exist on every street corner. Just like a someone that makes it into Harvard Medical School.

Most of the parents that push their kids into gymnastics do so because there exists an opportunity for those that succeed. For some, their underclass background means a life of laboring or rural fields. Even for the middle class that can afford an education, due to intense competition for limited places, many will not be able to complete schooling.

The parents are aware of the hard work involved, as you said its no secret, and has been the case for decades. Gymnastics is one of those sports that starts its athletes young and not just in China. Not something I would ever put my children through but there are reasons that so many choose to do so.

Didn't Tiger Woods start playing golf at 2? Look at where he is now.

this isnt that great of an argument. its like slave labour. they were showing videos of kids crying while continuously doing flips across the mat. im sure if 90% of those kids were sat down with out anyone around and asked if theyd rather be at home with their families, or doing flips across a mat hours upon hours a day. theyd probably want to go home and have friends and family etc. the videos i see of tiger were him smiling and having a good time while training. im sure he didnt like all of it, but pushing yourself in golf isnt exactly as tough as pushing yourself in gymnastics. either way i assume u werent completely serious with that last point!

 

[Lucky Strike]

Originally Posted by odoreater

I just don't understand this sentiment that the Olympics is somehow about something other than the sports. It's just not. I'm seeing this thrown around all over the place without any sort of explanation.
I just don't understand this sentiment that the Olympics is somehow about something other than the politics and money. It's just not. I'm seeing this thrown around all over the place without any sort of explanation.

Originally Posted by c3cubed

What was/is interesting to recognise, is that this sort of magnificent discipline is not only difficult, but I believe almost impossible in our western civilizations, because our freedoms are so based on the individual and not as a group or nation. Our unions and so-called pendulum of 'human rights' self importance has swung so far to the right - it could barely withstand the amount of aggressive discipline that would have been required to muster so many thousands into an almost frightening militaristic perfection. Face it folks, our laws are prescribed in a fashion as to walk on eggs over the consideration of a missive glance, or a caustic shout of disapproval - one gets sued for hundreds of thousands. Our western humanitarian ideals have precipitated the woosification of western morals and ethics. Mediocrity seems to be idealized and heroic, and we have ourselves to blame for this. No one else.
Allow me some cynicism, and the obvious reference:

 

[Lucky Strike]

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by Lucky Strike

Allow me some cynicism, and the obvious reference:
Agree. A disciplined, docile citizenry is generally the mark of something unsavory. I find it interesting, and surprising, that it impresses people. A great show is nice, but this kind of stuff is, to me, scary.

 

[eg1]

Originally Posted by iammatt

Agree. A disciplined, docile citizenry is generally the mark of something unsavory. I find it interesting, and surprising, that it impresses people. A great show is nice, but this kind of stuff is, to me, scary.

Could you please elaborate? What exactly is scary -- the precision of the ceremony, or the obsessive training of toddlers? Or was it something else I missed (besides the reductio-ad-hitlerum)?

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by eg1

Could you please elaborate? What exactly is scary -- the precision of the ceremony, or the obsessive training of toddlers? Or was it something else I missed (besides the reductio-ad-hitlerum)?
I was referring to this comment from C3cubed, not the games themselves.

What was/is interesting to recognise, is that this sort of magnificent discipline is not only difficult, but I believe almost impossible in our western civilizations, because our freedoms are so based on the individual and not as a group or nation. Our unions and so-called pendulum of 'human rights' self importance has swung so far to the right - it could barely withstand the amount of aggressive discipline that would have been required to muster so many thousands into an almost frightening militaristic perfection. Face it folks, our laws are prescribed in a fashion as to walk on eggs over the consideration of a missive glance, or a caustic shout of disapproval - one gets sued for hundreds of thousands. Our western humanitarian ideals have precipitated the woosification of western morals and ethics. Mediocrity seems to be idealized and heroic, and we have ourselves to blame for this. No one else.

 

[visionology]

Men's 4x100 relay WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[brimley]

Are we allowed to talk about actual events in this thread? Because that 400 free relay was pretty impressive.

 

[bryce330]

That was amazing! It's always fun watching the French choke, but the trash they were talking before the race made it even sweeter.

 

[visionology]

I don't know, hence my vague comment, I didn't want to ruin it for anyone. More of a notice if anyone hasn't seen it to do so!

 

[HORNS]

Originally Posted by visionology

Men's 4x100 relay WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

The BEST event of the whole Olympics.

 

[c3cubed]

Originally Posted by Lucky Strike

I just don't understand this sentiment that the Olympics is somehow about something other than the politics and money. It's just not. I'm seeing this thrown around all over the place without any sort of explanation.

Allow me some cynicism, and the obvious reference:

I enjoy your cynicism, and your pictoral analogy to Albert Speer.

Although "lighting is everything" - I think the pyrotechnic display was a little more of a temporary effect, a momentary splash of lightplay against the militant reds; (really meant for western chiaroscuro intimidation) But alas, only for a wee second and not an hour of nazi-perpendicular.

And there is my parallel cynicism to the cynics.

Note: Whether we admit it or not, some of the best illustration and graphic design of the 30's was inspired by German poster art, and is still to this day, emblematic of the entire decade.

 

[HORNS]

Originally Posted by Lucky Strike

I just don't understand this sentiment that the Olympics is somehow about something other than the politics and money. It's just not. I'm seeing this thrown around all over the place without any sort of explanation.



Allow me some cynicism, and the obvious reference:

You're making a big jump just for the sake of being cynical, Lucky. I'm probably just taking your post a little too seriously to miss the parody of referencing Nazi-ism.

But I believe there is symbolism in the opening ceremony that shows a difference in the Western versus the Chinese concept of the individual. My friend made a comment while watching it that she can barely get ten people to show up to work in her restaurant on a daily basis - so it blew her mind that so many people could work together to make such a beautiful spectacle.

 

[c3cubed]

Originally Posted by HORNS

You're making a big jump just for the sake of being cynical, Lucky. I'm probably just taking your post a little too seriously to miss the parody of referencing Nazi-ism.

But I believe there is symbolism in the opening ceremony that shows a difference in the Western versus the Chinese concept of the individual. My friend made a comment while watching it that she can barely get ten people to show up to work in her restaurant on a daily basis - so it blew her mind that so many people could work together to make such a beautiful spectacle.

Agreed, Horns. I think I made a similar comment earlier on in my assessment, and the friend you refer to in your statement - boy oh boy do I understand that sort of struggle.

Your point is well said. Nice to see others that understand.