The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[RJman]

The question is will I be dealing with Delos only if requested and starting the process in Paris- still waiting on a response from the Paris boutique about working with Delos directly- would be ideal for sure.

Buddy I was a very good customer of Delos before he joined Berluti and both he and I would say that any of the three bespoke shoemakers at Berluti - him, his old Lobb colleague Patrice Rock, or JM Casalonga - will do right by you. Don’t worry.

However for a lot less than Berluti you could order from Philippe Atienza, his old boss at Lobb Paris bespoke, who is now out on his own and is doing a trunk show at No man Walks Alone in NYC Nov 8 and 9.

 

[dauster]

Buddy I was a very good customer of Delos before he joined Berluti and both he and I would say that any of the three bespoke shoemakers at Berluti - him, his old Lobb colleague Patrice Rock, or JM Casalonga - will do right by you. Don’t worry.

However for a lot less than Berluti you could order from Philippe Atienza, his old boss at Lobb Paris bespoke, who is now out on his own and is doing a trunk show at No man Walks Alone in NYC Nov 8 and 9.

Thank you, yes Atienza is nice and it’s a great suggestion but I prefer Berluti I think. Also at this point I have been looking so much into it that I am somewhat “emotionally committed” to getting them. Of course pricing is off the charts and i could get about 2-3 spigola MTO I guess but I what can I say... I have zero arguments and for some reason my wife also loves Berluti even the crazier ones that I can’t stand - I already see my wife ordering some crazy mad max alligator Berluti boots without knowing the price

 

[bjhofkin]

Another vote for Sir Nicholas!

 

[ottmt89]

Other shoes and work started

 

[Concordia]

Interesting to hear so much flak about Cleverley. Certainly for bespoke oxfords, they're one of the safest bets I could make. But they made my first pair in '97 or so-- maybe they are not as careful with new orders?

 

[daizawaguy]

I think a lot has changed in 20 years - there are now a lot of outworkers, many Japan trained who would give everything to work for a name like Cleverly, and the problem starts where the guy who takes your measurement, the guy (or lady!) who make the last, the clicker, the stitcher, the insole maker, the outsole maker....whe these are all different people posting the package around to each other who have never seen the feet or fitting....then the chance of making a shoe that is close to the original foot starts to get distorted. Cleverly follow this model (to keep costs low I imagine), but this influences the end product and fitting. BTW, ever seen the Instagram stories on Cleverly - it seems all the artisans are Japanese - not a bad thing IMHO, but the more they use different people, the more variables that are introduced. Stick to a firm that you can meet everyone personally - bit like a suit really - the more you outsource, the variables you introduce...

 

[dieworkwear]

The bespoke market in general, for shoes and clothing, is so riddled with poor craftsmanship, terrible design, and sometimes outright fraud, I think this idea that bespoke sits at the top of some clothing pyramid needs to be revisited. I just don't think it's the case anymore that you can rely on a brand's history and reputation. This isn't just about my experience with big firms, but what I've seen and heard from other people.

In the end, there's no substitute for just trying something yourself. But I've been surprised at how bad many big firms are nowadays.

Lord knows small firms also have their issues. But the best work I've seen is usually at smaller firms.

 

[ntempleman]

There are relatively few Japanese folks who stay in the U.K. for the long term as it’s very difficult to get a visa on shoemaking money, they typically come over on a 2 year working holiday permit in order to learn as much as they can in that time. A steady stream of young people willing to work for peanuts in return for experience might be good for the bottom line, but just because they’re born in Japan doesn’t mean they’ll be master shoemakers straight off the plane, it’s no real measure of quality in the U.K. even though a lot of the finest shoemakers I know happen to be over in Japan. A lot of my friends there would rather be over here but it’s just not viable for the vast majority when you need a company to sponsor your visa

 

[ixk]

The bespoke market in general, for shoes and clothing, is so riddled with poor craftsmanship, terrible design, and sometimes outright fraud, I think this idea that bespoke sits at the top of some clothing pyramid needs to be revisited. I just don't think it's the case anymore that you can rely on a brand's history and reputation. This isn't just about my experience with big firms, but what I've seen and heard from other people.

In the end, there's no substitute for just trying something yourself. But I've been surprised at how bad many big firms are nowadays.

Lord knows small firms also have their issues. But the best work I've seen is usually at smaller firms.

Do you mean that some bespoke shoes are now inferior to handwelted RTW shoes? Or that some bespoke makers deliver service inconsistent with the 3k+ they charge in developed countries?

 

[dieworkwear]

Do you mean that some bespoke shoes are now inferior to handwelted RTW shoes? Or that some bespoke makers deliver service inconsistent with the 3k+ they charge in developed countries?

Both.

 

[dtwb]

Any advice from someone with bespoke shoe knowledge would be hugely appreciated:

I've noticed gaps between the heel cup and heel stack/upper on my new bespoke pair (evident under bright light).
Wondering whether this is a mistake, and major issue - leaving them open to the elements, etc. - or not worth bothering about?
Certainly it wasn't the aesthetic I had in mind when I commissioned them - finely pitched heel, built tight to the upper, with no gaps.

All insight gratefully received!

 

[DWFII]

Hard to tell from a photo, but some of your pics suggest that the maker has sewn the 'heel seat' and that some of the individual stitches have gotten too close to the edge of the seat...esp. around the back.

I may be wrong...like I say, photos can be misleading. But that is a major consideration for me--that, however the heal seat is sewn or pegged, or anchored, the fastening not be too close to the periphery of the insole.

Having said all that, getting a close fit around the heel of the shoe is often a matter of driving the outsole in close to the heel seat. And that process can, perhaps even should, force the leather up as well as inward... doing so will usually cover the healseat sewing and go a long way to creating that "tight to the upper" aesthetic you are seeking . I definitely see cork on one photo and that tells me that the outsole was not hammered in close.

Eventually, hopefully, the shoe will 'settle' but it's not the aesthetic that, as a maker, I would want either.

 

[shirtingfantasy]

Any advice from someone with bespoke shoe knowledge would be hugely appreciated:

I've noticed gaps between the heel cup and heel stack/upper on my new bespoke pair (evident under bright light).
Wondering whether this is a mistake, and major issue - leaving them open to the elements, etc. - or not worth bothering about?
Certainly it wasn't the aesthetic I had in mind when I commissioned them - finely pitched heel, built tight to the upper, with no gaps.

All insight gratefully received!

Incidentally, were there also slight scuffs near the waist and the heel areas (as seen from the 2nd and 4th photos)? Guess the shoes were not yet finished so they can be covered in some dye/ wax when the heel problem would also be fixed by the maker?

 

[dtwb]

Hard to tell from a photo, but some of your pics suggest that the maker has sewn the 'heel seat' and that some of the individual stitches have gotten too close to the edge of the seat...esp. around the back.

I may be wrong...like I say, photos can be misleading. But that is a major consideration for me--that, however the heal seat is sewn or pegged, or anchored, the fastening not be too close to the periphery of the insole.

Having said all that, getting a close fit around the heel of the shoe is often a matter of driving the outsole in close to the heel seat. And that process can, perhaps even should, force the leather up as well as inward... doing so will usually cover the healseat sewing and go a long way to creating that "tight to the upper" aesthetic you are seeking . I definitely see cork on one photo and that tells me that the outsole was not hammered in close.

Eventually, hopefully, the shoe will 'settle' but it's not the aesthetic that, as a maker, I would want either.

Thank you so, so much for your detailed response.
I will send the photos to the maker/s in the hope of rectifying things. There are some fit adjustments that need to happen anyway.
Perils of a bespoke commission with a large firm I suppose... or perhaps just unlucky...
Thank you again, hugely appreciated.

 

[dtwb]

Incidentally, were there also slight scuffs near the waist and the heel areas (as seen from the 2nd and 4th photos)? Guess the shoes were not yet finished so they can be covered in some dye/ wax when the heel problem would also be fixed by the maker?

A little. This was before I first polished them - there was a lovely shine on the toes, and they looked generally great, but not sure how much time went into polishing before they were sent to me.
Yes, hopefully these spots could also be touched up. There are other stylistic things that weren't quite carried through - I'd asked for a fiddle waist, and it's ended up as something less sharp and sculpted than I would have liked, etc.