Tai chi

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by Faded501s

you've posted pictures here and I'm surprised you can even get off the couch without help.


yes, that is what kids are for - they are great at helping me get off the couch.

Yeah well I gotta call BS because I did read the whole thread and you showed nothing but condescension towards the "magic pajama dance

yes, yes, you cought me. I have no respect what so ever towards akido and tai chi as "martial arts". I meant what I said - when I am about 60, I fully intend to take tai chi up, it is supposed to be great for your joints and balance and so on.

but, yeah, sorry - I know people who take all sorts of martial arts - I've never had anybody else be so intersted in showing how there style is so effective. and it always seems to be a faith that is magical - you study a style for 5 years and you never actually hit anything, and then you imagine that you are going to turn into bruce lee when you need it, I find that amusing. sue me.

 

[whacked]

What's your point again, Faded501s? If I read it correctly:

Originally Posted by Faded501s

As far as "fighting skills" I really don't know...maybe in the advanced stages but it seems, what I know of it, that Tai Chi is more along the lines of Yoga or even Pilates. You'd probably become a better fighter by taking ballet lessons.
... that's pretty much everyone (- Miguel Antonio and CoHo, perhaps) has said all along.

 

[Miguel Antonio]

I was not saying it is effective as a martial art, but as exercise. Although I was wrong, it's effective only for old men it seems. And please stop mentioning my name.

 

[J'aimelescravates]

Ok Miguel.

Fighting should be an absolute last resort anyway. Martial Arts (as far as I've been taught) have always stressed finding alternative ways to resolve conflicts. The training, etc. is supposed to be for harmonizing mind and body (something Tai Chi does rather well) with self-defense as icing on the proverbial cake. If you are there to learn how to kick ass then you are there for the wrong reasons

 

[globetrotter]

Well yes, that is obvious. On the other hand, using a defibrillator is an obsolute last resort, too, but if you should need one, you want it to perform.

My feeling about a small group of soft martial arts, and how some schools teach other martial arts, is that students can be given a false sense of their own capabilities.

Look at fencing and kendo - they are fun, good excersize and develop a great deal of the traits and skills that one gets from martial arts. They also give one the rush of adrenaline that you get with head to head competition. And while they may give you some general stuff that may allow you to perform better in a fight, nobody really expects that as part of the side benifits.

If you take a martial art that gives you pretty much nothing in terms of ability to defend yoursel, but your teacher/school convinces you that you are now a ninja warrior, you are an accident waiting to happen.

What I like about some schools/styles is that if you are working correctly you should know everyday exactly what your capacity is.

Originally Posted by J'aimelescravates

Ok Miguel.

Fighting should be an absolute last resort anyway. Martial Arts (as far as I've been taught) have always stressed finding alternative ways to resolve conflicts. The training, etc. is supposed to be for harmonizing mind and body (something Tai Chi does rather well) with self-defense as icing on the proverbial cake. If you are there to learn how to kick ass then you are there for the wrong reasons

 

[J'aimelescravates]

It is obvious to you, good. Sadly that point is not so obvious to everyone.

 

[West24]

yea i box and once a week or something judo guys will come in and do there thing during our class. they think theyre pretty hard, yet i never really see them doing all out fighting etc. so i always wonder how they will react in a real fight. until youve experienced getting rushed with fists flying, you dont know how to react. your instinct is to close your eyes and turn your head. in boxing you should get over this in about the first month or two, because you are doing live sparring, so you get the chance to get confident and used to that feeling. its like anything you do, if you play basketball and all you do is layup drills and never play a game, when it comes to gametime youll get blown out, same thing with any kind of fighting. if you dont do the real thing, when the real thing comes you wont be prepared.

 

[Eason]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

yes, that is what kids are for - they are great at helping me get off the couch.



yes, yes, you cought me. I have no respect what so ever towards akido and tai chi as "martial arts". I meant what I said - when I am about 60, I fully intend to take tai chi up, it is supposed to be great for your joints and balance and so on.

but, yeah, sorry - I know people who take all sorts of martial arts - I've never had anybody else be so intersted in showing how there style is so effective. and it always seems to be a faith that is magical - you study a style for 5 years and you never actually hit anything, and then you imagine that you are going to turn into bruce lee when you need it, I find that amusing. sue me.

globetrotter has the correct

 

[javyn]

Yes, finding a good bagua teacher is already incredibly difficult, and you are exactly right most won't bother with you unless you are already at an "expert" level of Tai Chi.

But good God, look up videos of baguazhang practitioners and tell me that's not the most fluid, beautiful thing you've ever seen. I don't even care about the martial aspect of the art, I just want to be able to move like that!

bagua is intense, and pretty awesome when done well. The upper echelon of Wushu practitioners that I know will not teach Bagua to anyone who hasn't done at least 6 years of Taichi and 4 years of Wushu, because the stances and movements are much more complex and difficult.

 

[retronotmetro]

Originally Posted by J'aimelescravates

Ok Miguel.

Fighting should be an absolute last resort anyway. Martial Arts (as far as I've been taught) have always stressed finding alternative ways to resolve conflicts. The training, etc. is supposed to be for harmonizing mind and body (something Tai Chi does rather well) with self-defense as icing on the proverbial cake. If you are there to learn how to kick ass then you are there for the wrong reasons

I don't disagree that fighting is a last resort.

However, I think almost everyone at my present dojo would argue the reverse of your motivational theory. If harmonizing mind and body are one's primary goal, I imagine that there are ways to learn that that don't involve taking hard contact kicks and punches to the body.

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by retronotmetro

I don't disagree that fighting is a last resort.

However, I think almost everyone at my present dojo would argue the reverse of your motivational theory. If harmonizing mind and body are one's primary goal, I imagine that there are ways to learn that that don't involve taking hard contact kicks and punches to the body.

+1

But good God, look up videos of baguazhang practitioners and tell me that's not the most fluid, beautiful thing you've ever seen. I don't even care about the martial aspect of the art, I just want to be able to move like that!

true, but there are many many things that are very beautiful to watch and very healthy to do, but they aren't martial arts. I don't doubt that ballet is hard, graceful and healthy - I know that gymnastics is.

 

[javyn]

You're certainly right, but nothing has ever appealed to me more than watching a skilled bagua practitioner.

hell I even like watching Erle Montague, even though I think he may be full of ****...

 

[The Deacon]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

+1



true, but there are many many things that are very beautiful to watch and very healthy to do, but they aren't martial arts. I don't doubt that ballet is hard, graceful and healthy - I know that gymnastics is.

I can't dispute this, much of the baguazhang being taught doesn't really stand up well. However, if you ever get a chance to view a cd/vhs/disc of He Jinbao or xie peiqi of Yin Style bagua, I highly recommend it. Tell me if you see anything soft or pretty. It breaks bones, it's not flowery.

Also, one doesn't need to take Tai chi first. They are very different. It isn't necessarily a sequential thing. The two arts were developed by different masters Dong Hai chuan and Yang Luchan(Yang Style) (Chen in Chen village where Yang apprenticed and then formed his own tai chi) who knew each other and recommended learning each others art but it isn't a set in stone requirement. Many YangTai chi folks will not submit to hard bagua training and engagement.

The energies and training of energy and body strength building and attack methods of Yin Style bagua are very rigorous and grueling. Yang tai chi people last trained like that 90 years ago but not now. Good Chen style (inner door) comes closer with it's forceful strikes, low basin stance work and hard jing issuance.It's the case in Beijing, taiwan and here in the US. There is no blanket bagua or tai chi there are as many differences in these arts(even in China) as there are differences in all the other arts. Yin bagua(Xie's and Jinbao's) is for fighting period, not for looking pretty. g'night

 

[Matt]

yeah uh...my money is still on Wanderlei.

 

[caelte]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

Seriously Conne. Tai Chi is nice and all, but do you REALLY need to appear any gayer than you already do? I mean, you might as well pull up to Tai Chi class in your purple Miata, wearing a lace fringed unitard, blasting showtunes. With your boyfriend.
I had to go back to the beginnning of this thread to find out how ballet got involved. I still don't see the connection. Conne doing Tai Chi would be good for You Tube yuks but trying to diss Tai Chi because it doesn't teach you how to rip someones's face off is assinine. I think TS summed it up it up for Conne but , seriously, anybody who is actively into street fighting or whatever would gain an advantage through a sitting meditiation or a moving meditation like Tai Chi. Most of the individuals I've met who ridicule the idea of getting in touch with their body or their mind are afraid of what they might find.