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people who bitch about tipping are scum?

RedLantern

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Thats why I said "kind of a dick" not "a huge asshole". It's like the difference between someone who snakes up along side a line in traffic and then merges in (kind of a dick, but you live with it and shrug it off) and someone who blows through a stoplight and flips you the bird (a huge asshole).
And again, there are varying degrees. What I meant by treating a restaurant like a cafe was a combination of staying long time AND not spending any money. One or the other is, as you point out, something you must accept if you're going to be able to hack it. People doing both at the same time, especially when it's busy or at closing, are being kind of dicks. People that do both while it's busy or at closing and then leave a bad tip are huge assholes.
 

RedLantern

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Also, I will concede that people who stay a long time tip a little higher than average, but definitely not enough to make up for the lost turn. But whatevs.
 

venividivicibj

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I don't feel that way anymore, even though I did when it was a waiter in my early 20s. Sometimes you are catching up with someone you haven't seen in many years. Other times, you are doing some important business. You can't treat a dinner guest like it was a movie and the theater empties every hour and a half. If that person wants to use the table for longer than the restaurant deems acceptable, so be it. It's part of the business.
I would say that if you stay at a table for a long time, you should tip more
 

NGOStudio

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Personally, I think this is a problem of an industry, where owners hope customers to subsidize their employees instead of paying a resonable salary. While I hope most people can be more understanding when it comes to tipping or courtesy, it's not wise to rely on others' kindness when the world are only getting meaner and tougher every day.
 

idfnl

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Went to dinner last night with the lovely wife. New restaurant I haven't been to. French-Moroccan-tapas, whatever that is.

Got a glass of wine, received the 2017 pour that didn't even look like half a glass. Very last time I order a glass of wine for the rest of my life. What a ripoff.

Food was pretty good, no complaints there.

Unfortunately the waiter was a nice guy, but a fucking chat box. For the guys in this thread that are waiters, when food arrives at the table, let people eat. I don't want to listen to hyper detailed descriptions of what I am about to eat... I ordered it, I know what I am about to eat. Let me eat.
 

Piobaire

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Personally, I think this is a problem of an industry, where owners hope customers to subsidize their employees instead of paying a resonable salary. While I hope most people can be more understanding when it comes to tipping or courtesy, it's not wise to rely on others' kindness when the world are only getting meaner and tougher every day.
This is illogical. Customers pay 100% of all salaries in a restaurant no matter what.
 

NGOStudio

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This is illogical. Customers pay 100% of all salaries in a restaurant no matter what.
Indeed there is no foolproof solution. At least the upfront will be better for everyone, particularly for the servers.
 
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Piobaire

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There is no foolproof solution, but asking diners to pay more without a binding agreement is


Indeed there is no foolproof solution. At least the upfront will be better for everyone, particularly for the servers.
This may or may not be the case but what I said still stands. Customers pay 100% of all wages in a restaurant and the owner is not "subsidizing" anything.
 

NGOStudio

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This may or may not be the case but what I said still stands. Customers pay 100% of all wages in a restaurant and the owner is not "subsidizing" anything.
Not technically. And you might misunderstand my point. The restaurant owners simply transfer their responsibility of a guaranteed reasonable wage for their employees to the customers.
 

Piobaire

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Not technically. And you might misunderstand my point. The restaurant owners simply transfer their responsibility of a guaranteed reasonable wage for their employees to the customers.
Yes, technically. Surely this is not hard to understand? All revenues come from the customers. Period. End of story. No customers, no revenue. This argument is specious.
 

NGOStudio

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Yes, technically. Surely this is not hard to understand? All revenues come from the customers. Period. End of story. No customers, no revenue. This argument is specious.
Indeed all revenues come from the customers. While the meal payments are guaranteed, the gratuity amounts are not always enforceable or will match the expectation of the servers. I knew servers who have worked long hours and come home with less than minimum wage and the best advice I could often think of is for them to find a different place, or a more satisfying job.
 

Piobaire

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Indeed all revenues come from the customers. While the meal payments are guaranteed, the gratuity amounts are not always enforceable or will match the expectation of the servers. I knew servers who have worked long hours and come home with less than minimum wage and the best advice I could often think of is for them to find a different place, or a more satisfying job.
First, if a server earns less than minimum the employer must make up for that, so that is just false. Also, any server making less than minimum must truly suck at their job.

Second, servers are employees and their expectations are secondary to the customers and owners. If they don't like it, move on.

Lastly, no matter what pricing scheme is used (lower prices/tipping or higher prices/service charge included,) as the customers provide all revenues, the owners are transferring no responsibility. Customers will decide if the restaurant is worth patronizing or not based on their own preferences.
 

NGOStudio

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First, if a server earns less than minimum the employer must make up for that, so that is just false. Also, any server making less than minimum must truly suck at their job.

Second, servers are employees and their expectations are secondary to the customers and owners. If they don't like it, move on.

Lastly, no matter what pricing scheme is used (lower prices/tipping or higher prices/service charge included,) as the customers provide all revenues, the owners are transferring no responsibility. Customers will decide if the restaurant is worth patronizing or not based on their own preferences.
The first part of your saying is true, except it's not the reality that we're living in. The second part of your saying is the reason for me to believe an upfront cost included in the meal and the dining experience is better. There is no judgement here, every human will always look out for himself first, either consciously or unconsciously.
 

Harold falcon

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Personally, I think this is a problem of an industry, where owners hope customers to subsidize their employees instead of paying a resonable salary. While I hope most people can be more understanding when it comes to tipping or courtesy, it's not wise to rely on others' kindness when the world are only getting meaner and tougher every day.
This is so fucking delusional, do you realize how much more servers earn by tips than if they were paid straight hourly wages? It has nothing to do with kindness. Tips are a tax dodge, always have been, always will be. You want to attack someone go after the tax man.
 

Piobaire

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The first part of your saying is true, except it's not the reality that we're living in. The second part of your saying is the reason for me to believe an upfront cost included in the meal and the dining experience is better. There is no judgement here, every human will always look out for himself first, either consciously or unconsciously.
As I think you're the expert on not living in reality I'll bow to your superior knowledge.
 

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