My visit to Huntsman

[David Reeves]

I don't know why Americans think English suits have tons of padding or heavily padded shoulders. Of course there's "more" than an unstructured Neapolitan coat but we aren't talking anything like an American suit from the 90s or 80s. English suits look sharp but feel soft. Anything with a great deal of handwork has a softer feel anyway, fusibles are more stiff.

 

[GBR]

Helpful post, thanks

 

[Trompe le Monde]

very interesting that picture of the trousers cut so conformable to the bodys curvature. (not just fitting seat dimension & width).

also, apparently Don Cherry's overcoat being made

 

[bboysdontcryy]



Anything with a great deal of handwork has a softer feel anyway, fusibles are more stiff.

David, would like to take you up on this point. I was actually told that a coat with densely hand-padded, say, canvass and lapels, will result in a 'stiffer' feel to it, and that this dense hand-padding is done when making more 'structured' and 'shaped' garments. Have I been misinformed?

 

[Cary Grant]

Hunstman was my favorite visit on the row - I too went in with an impression of a heavy shoulder and came out impressed with how light it actually was.

 

[Griffindork]



I don't know why Americans think English suits have tons of padding or heavily padded shoulders. Of course there's "more" than an unstructured Neapolitan coat but we aren't talking anything like an American suit from the 90s or 80s. English suits look sharp but feel soft. Anything with a great deal of handwork has a softer feel anyway, fusibles are more stiff.

I'm not sure it is a matter of how Americans view English suits. I've never heard the suggestion that A&S has too much padding and that is generally viewed as being as English as English can get. I think the common view has to do a lot with the Huntsman look, in particular the combination of the straight (but not flat) shoulder line and roped shoulder. And again, my suits from Kilgour have an excessive, uncomfortable amount of padding so I think this is really about the particular maker rather than an English thing.

 

[David Reeves]



David, would like to take you up on this point. I was actually told that a coat with densely hand-padded, say, canvass and lapels, will result in a 'stiffer' feel to it, and that this dense hand-padding is done when making more 'structured' and 'shaped' garments. Have I been misinformed?

Well you can make that sharp english looking coat with padding but its a bit of a cheap and easy way out. Your better off achieving that look through cutting, shaping and pressing. yes there has to be some structure in there but its really not about bulk. What people never really talk about is the amount of skill, time and importance of good shaping and pressing.

Of course Savile Row is really fond of heavy cloths, that in conjunction with a structured garment may seem uncomfortable to some. I carry 16oz cloths and things like Lesser but they are not my go to books, the heaviest I make usually is 12oz. Most of the suits I make are 9oz. I have an American client who got a Gieves suit, which he likes but he always jokes with me about how heavy the cloth is. The English mentality is a suit that last 30 years, now a 16 oz Gieves suit with extra trousers, probably would last that long. For myself I think this is a bit unrealistic in the modern world, I get about 5 years out of mine, but then again I don't have as many suits as you may think and I tend to get bored of them rather than wear them out.

 

[David Reeves]



I'm not sure it is a matter of how Americans view English suits. I've never heard the suggestion that A&S has too much padding and that is generally viewed as being as English as English can get. I think the common view has to do a lot with the Huntsman look, in particular the combination of the straight (but not flat) shoulder line and roped shoulder. And again, my suits from Kilgour have an excessive, uncomfortable amount of padding so I think this is really about the particular maker rather than an English thing.

I think it may be, I never heard anyone talking about this until I came to the States. I would also say that A&S is to my eyes not as English as English can get, I think that 3os look they keep doing is very English/American and I can see why they are so popular in the States. Having said that I had a ton of American clients at Richard James, maybe even a 1/3rd.....if only I had stolen the client list.....

Im surprised by Kilgour.

 

[archibaldleach]

Great post. Thanks for sharing, Unbel.

 

[unbelragazzo]



I don't know why Americans think English suits have tons of padding or heavily padded shoulders. Of course there's "more" than an unstructured Neapolitan coat but we aren't talking anything like an American suit from the 90s or 80s. English suits look sharp but feel soft. Anything with a great deal of handwork has a softer feel anyway, fusibles are more stiff.

In general I agree with you that the English padding thing is exaggerated. Italians contribute to this. Here's a piece I wrote a while ago about this (sorry for the spam, but it is relevant to this discussion):

http://ivorytowerstyle.com/post/52166207847/if-youve-talked-to-anyone-connected-to-the

If you look at the picture of Patrick Murphy, for instance, you can see that the jacket is moving easily with him - it's not a straightjacket by any means.

If you put a Steed and a Huntsman in a lineup with a Hugo Boss RTW or a Nutter from the 70s, the Steed and Huntsman are going to look much more similar to each other than the third jacket. But there are differences between them, which I hope my writeups and pictures on each have helped clarify.

That said (I know you, David, know this, but just clarifying for posters who may not), there's a big difference between "machine made" and "fused" lapels. There are (very expensive) machines that can pad lapels (i.e., make them without fusing them). In areas other than the lapels - and I am not a tailor but this is mostly relying on Jefferyd, whom I consider very reliable on these matters - the increased "flexibility" of a hand-stitch vs. a machine-stitch is exaggerated. Machines now can do a lot more than a lock stitch. If you have the right machine and the right operator, you can do almost any task as well as it can be done by hand for all practical purposes. Many tailors will disagree with what I just said I'm sure, but at the very least I think it's fair to say that there's not universal consensus over when handwork is better. Of course some people like hand stitching per se, which is fine. A really nice handmade buttonhole is a work of art, even though it carries no real practical benefit over a machine-made one.

 

[unbelragazzo]

Here are a few others of Patrick in different positions to give you a sense of how the suit jacket moves around with him:

 

[imperialconsul]

Fantastic post. I remember watching my father being fitted at Huntsman when I was around 8. My first brush with the row and perhaps where all this clothing nonsense of mine started. Always brings back memories every time I go in....

 

[dieworkwear]



That said (I know you, David, know this, but just clarifying for posters who may not), there's a big difference between "machine made" and "fused" lapels. There are (very expensive) machines that can pad lapels (i.e., make them without fusing them). In areas other than the lapels - and I am not a tailor but this is mostly relying on Jefferyd, whom I consider very reliable on these matters - the increased "flexibility" of a hand-stitch vs. a machine-stitch is exaggerated. Machines now can do a lot more than a lock stitch. If you have the right machine and the right operator, you can do almost any task as well as it can be done by hand for all practical purposes. Many tailors will disagree with what I just said I'm sure, but at the very least I think it's fair to say that there's not universal consensus over when handwork is better. Of course some people like hand stitching per se, which is fine. A really nice handmade buttonhole is a work of art, even though it carries no real practical benefit over a machine-made one.

I'd agree with this, though I've also been told that the one place where handstitching can count is in the attachment of the sleeve to the body, where the stitching has to go through multiple layers of thick material, so having the kind of "give" that handstitching brings is useful.

 

[poorsod]



I'd agree with this, though I've also been told that the one place where handstitching can count is in the attachment of the sleeve to the body, where the stitching has to go through multiple layers of thick material, so having the kind of "give" that handstitching brings is useful.

Jefferyd also has a post about disproving this assertion as well.

 

[unbelragazzo]



Jefferyd also has a post about disproving this assertion as well.

I hasten to add though, in this case, as in many others, it's not just a matter of getting the right machine and putting fabric into a blender box at the top and it comes out stitched perfectly. There's significant skill involved in being able to use the machine well. You need a skilled operator just as you would need a skilled sewer to do it by hand.