Like, Dislike, Good, Bad; talking about clothes

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Originally Posted by reprehensible

Everybody here likes to talk about clothes. Lots of people like to ask others to dress them, and that's its own thing, but aside from that a lot of the discussion is about whether some brand or style is good or bad.

These threads are a little frustrating to read, because it's easy for everyone to talk past each other. And they often get derailed by a meta-discussion about how tedious the original question is, or whatever. So maybe it's worth thinking about what it makes sense to talk about, and what gets bound up in questions of whether something is good or bad.

First, there are wide-scale empirical questions one can be asking: is this item tasteful, is this item fashionable. These are observable characteristics. If lots of the right people are wearing something, it's fashionable. Tasteful is a little more elusive, but it's still an external phenomenon having to do with norms and whatever.

Second, there are group-level questions: is this item something that a certain sort of person would approve of. This is like a proxy-question for whether or not something is stylish, with maybe some commentary on why, and whether it will continue to be so.

Finally, there are individual opinion questions: does a given person like an item, does a given person approve of an item. This is where most of the interesting commentary happens, but it's also the place where confusion sometimes happens.

I think the questions you are asking are especially relevant for all the fit discussions on here. People advocate certain brands because they say the fit is great, but when they say the fit is great, it is really a shorthand for saying it fits that person well. It does seem odd to use an objective phrase to describe something so subjective.

 

[Fuuma]

Originally Posted by reprehensible

Everybody here likes to talk about clothes. Lots of people like to ask others to dress them, and that's its own thing, but aside from that a lot of the discussion is about whether some brand or style is good or bad.

These threads are a little frustrating to read, because it's easy for everyone to talk past each other. And they often get derailed by a meta-discussion about how tedious the original question is, or whatever. So maybe it's worth thinking about what it makes sense to talk about, and what gets bound up in questions of whether something is good or bad.

First, there are wide-scale empirical questions one can be asking: is this item tasteful, is this item fashionable. These are observable characteristics. If lots of the right people are wearing something, it's fashionable. Tasteful is a little more elusive, but it's still an external phenomenon having to do with norms and whatever.

Second, there are group-level questions: is this item something that a certain sort of person would approve of. This is like a proxy-question for whether or not something is stylish, with maybe some commentary on why, and whether it will continue to be so.

Finally, there are individual opinion questions: does a given person like an item, does a given person approve of an item. This is where most of the interesting commentary happens, but it's also the place where confusion sometimes happens.

Go read about "the ideology of taste" by Bourdieu. Some people have asked these questions before and the answers are fascinating but the discussions are way better if everyone got the right background.

 

[mulansauce]

Originally Posted by tagutcow

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You seem to have the perfect cat-comeback for every post.

 

[reprehensible]

Originally Posted by mulansauce

You seem to have the perfect cat-comeback for every post.

I was happy to see that I can make kittens fall adorably asleep.

 

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Originally Posted by Fuuma

Go read about "the ideology of taste" by Bourdieu. Some people have asked these questions before and the answers are fascinating but the discussions are way better if everyone got the right background.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Distinction

This, right? Thanks for the suggestion, I will read as soon as I have time.