learning poker

[globetrotter]

I want to learn to play poker, any recomendations?

 

[GQgeek]

there was a recent post on exactly this: http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=182154 for some basic suggestions. Start reading around post 25.

 

[Pantisocrat]

For recreation or employment?

 

[globetrotter]

thanks, perfect. recreational

 

[GQgeek]

If you want to play no-limit hold'em read the books I suggested (Cash games vol1&2) and the one kev suggested(No-Limit Hold Em: Theory and Practice), which I omitted, but which is really great for teaching concepts you should be thinking about. if you have questions post them here though since that thread has officially derailed.

One thing that's not really dealt with in that thread si that it's probably best to master one game than trying to learn all of them well, at least at first. They're very different. Many pros refuse to play one or the other. To become any good at even one game will take months of dedicated study/play, even if you're on a rigorous program.

You looking to play online or live?

 

[HarDaniel]

Get some friends and start to play. That's what we did. After you adjusted yourself to your game of choice, you can try some tournaments. Some of those poker websites are also a nice way to practice because you can try all the different games and don't even have to spend any money.

 

[GQgeek]

^^ if you want to learn to play for real (and actually be decent), that's the worst way imo. Games are way to slow and you don't learn much playing the same few people (that probably also suck; most live players suck) once a week. # of hands played is extremely important in building skills. Yeah, you'll learn the rules and maybe have some fun in a live game like that, but not much more.

Also, playing for free online isn't the same as playing for money; not even compared to micro-stakes. People just don't play the same way. They essentially all become maniacs. Nobody is their true self when there's no real money at stake, even when it's just a .10 BB.

For reference, a live game might do 30 hands per hour. Online you'll play at the least 60. That's twice as many per hour. Depending on the table you might see upwards of 100 hands per hour. And that's if you're only playing one table. Once certain thinking becomes automatic, you can increase your # of tables. Even a beginner can play 2 tables at a time. Do the math. # hands = experience so online >>> live.

 

[Milpool]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

^^ if you want to learn to play for real (and actually be decent), that's the worst way imo. Games are way to slow and you don't learn much playing the same few people (that probably also suck; most live players suck) once a week. # of hands played is extremely important in building skills. Yeah, you'll learn the rules and maybe have some fun in a live game like that, but not much more.

Also, playing for free online isn't the same as playing for money; not even compared to micro-stakes. People just don't play the same way. They essentially all become maniacs. Nobody is their true self when there's no real money at stake, even when it's just a .10 BB.

For reference, a live game might do 30 hands per hour. Online you'll play at the least 60. That's twice as many per hour. Depending on the table you might see upwards of 100 hands per hour. And that's if you're only playing one table. Once certain thinking becomes automatic, you can increase your # of tables. Even a beginner can play 2 tables at a time. Do the math. # hands = experience so online >>> live.

I'm doing the math now. Does learning vary directly and linearly with number of hands played, or is time a confound in the equation? It seems to me that learning this is much like learning anything else...it is actually a curve, and you need to optimize to the peak of the curve. Time per hand is going to be important, I agree on that. . . but too little and you don't get to analyze and learn why something worked or did not work. Too much and you are wasting time.

 

[globetrotter]

a group of my fiends play, and I joined them last night. I think that I need to understqand well the percentages and the hands to be able to make good judgments, and everyone at the table has been playing a lot more than me. what I am looking for is a way to get up to speed a little cheaper than loosing for 20 or so games. I'll look into the books. thanks

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by Milpool

I'm doing the math now. Does learning vary directly and linearly with number of hands played, or is time a confound in the equation? It seems to me that learning this is much like learning anything else...it is actually a curve, and you need to optimize to the peak of the curve. Time per hand is going to be important, I agree on that. . . but too little and you don't get to analyze and learn why something worked or did not work. Too much and you are wasting time.
Playing 2 online tables at a time is perfectly feasible for a newb. You'll still have plenty of time to think about everything you need to be thinking about, and you can tile your tables so you can keep an eye on both of them. Everyone has different abilities though. Some might be able to do 3 tables comfortably after a short time. I'd not recommend 4 until you really know what you're doing at the stakes you're playing at. You want to read the board on every hand that's played. This is key practice. You want it to become automatic. The better you get at this, the better you'll get at placing your opponent on a range of hands based on his pre-flop and post-flop behaviour. I would say that learning is very non-linear with poker. I think that even if you approach it in a serious manner by playing lots of hands, doing lots of reading, studying and post-session analysis, you will have to invest a lot of time to get decent but at some point it will start to click if you're intelligent and self-aware. I'd also say that if you can be a break-even player at low stakes online, you will absolutely crush most home games.

 

[SkinnyGoomba]

Play Zynga poker on facebook.

11,500 hands taught me enough that I can play well in a casino. I have fun with it but I dont expect to be able to make a living with it.

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by SkinnyGoomba

Play Zynga poker on facebook.

11,500 hands taught me enough that I can play well in a casino. I have fun with it but I dont expect to be able to make a living with it.

cool, thanks

 

[nbouscal]

A few different recommendations. First off, everything GQgeek said about playing online is dead on. There's a reason online pros have been showing so well at the WSOP lately: more experience. A lot of these 20-something online pros have seen more hands than the old pros like Texas Dolly and Amarillo Slim, despite Doyle having won two WSOP ME bracelets a decade before Joe Cada was even born. I strongly recommend that you put maybe $50 on one of the poker sites and grind out as many hands as you can at the $.01/.02 stakes. Second, as you start to get familiar with the game, I'm of the opinion that you should make a decision between cash and tournament play. Everyone plays both eventually, but especially starting out you'd do well to pick one to learn first. They're simply different games, and trying to learn two games at once is going to be inefficient. That same point goes for varieties of poker other than Texas Hold'em: HORSE is a hell of a lot of fun, but wait until you have several thousand hands under your belt before you start branching out. Third, read read read. There are hundreds (maybe thousands by now) of poker books out there, and maybe 15-20 that are actually worth reading. The ones that are worth reading, though, are essential. The typical book to start you off with is Super System, which is considered the classic poker book. Other essentials are the three Harrington on Hold'em books, Caro's Book of Tells (only applies to live play), Sklansky's Theory of Poker, and Ace on the River by Barry Greenstein. If you decide to focus on cash games, Harrington has some great books about cash play. If you decide to focus on tournaments, I strongly recommend Kill Phil and its sequel Kill Everyone, as well as Winning Poker Tournaments by rizen, apestyles, and pearljammer. There are several more solid books but I think that's plenty to start you off with Again, the only way to learn is to play, play, and play more. There are some fantastic poker forums out there (Pocket Fives for more of a tournament focus, 2+2 for more of a cash focus) that can help you learn. Also, after you've been playing for a bit you'll want to start checking out your stats on sites like OPR and Sharkscope and maybe even get a HUD like PT3 or HEM. That's a ways down the road though. Hope some of that was helpful

 

[RedScarf7]

check out deuces cracked, leggo poker or cardrunners. I think they all have a free trial month that will allow you to assess the value of their content before you start paying a monthly fee. Watch all the basic videos and you will own your friends. Also, download pokerstove to get a better understanding of hand ranges and ev. Use it to play out basic, common scenarios and evaluate your play in these positions. You can often fix big beginner leaks by doing this as beginners tend to chase far more than they should.

 

[GQgeek]

I'd start with a HUD right off the bat, personally. It's 50-60 bucks and it really makes you focus on your game. And you may as well start building stats on your opponents right away because it's impossible to keep track of people online without one. Plus, a guy like GT can do hand review on his numerous flights, so it would be a great learning tool, and it helps you objectively analyze where you should alter your play once you understand the stats. Basically, it helps you learn faster.