How fancy can I get at college before I get ostracized.

[Don Carlos]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

You've got to be kidding me. Now you're the one changing the question. It wasn't how far can you go being being judged. I've certainly admitted that wearing a suit will lead to judgment, and I've never once claimed that wearing a suit to class is common or the norm anywhere (so stop trying to say that I did). The question was how far can one go before being ostracized, and in college, I'd say that's pretty damn far.

I haven't changed my position since I first started posting on this thread. You've just been misinterpreting or misreading me consistently it seems. In my opinion, and in the opinions of quite a few people on this thread, wearing a suit every day will most likely lead to the kid's being ostracized. I never said it would necessarily and absolutely happen, but rather, that it would almost certainly happen. As such, I recommended that he not wear a suit. If I haven't made that position clear enough so far, such that there has been room to misinterpret me, I apologize.

I never said college campuses being mostly casual was a ludicrous generalization. I was referring to the idea that wearing a suit to class will doom one to being a social outcast is a ludicrous generalization.

Well, to be fair, you never really articulated which of my statements you thought was a ludicrous generalization, so I took a stab at one. At any rate, no, it's not a ludicrous generalization to assume that dressing in a suit every day will lead to being ostracized. It's highly likely. Again, because you're a statistician and I wish to respect the rules of statistics, I can't say with 100% certainty that wearing a suit will lead to being ostracized. Fair. But let's call it 75%. Even 50%, if that suits you. My point is that, whatever we want to call the odds, I think they're too high for him to risk wearing the suit. My argument is about how much risk he's willing to take on, and given my extensive experience with college campuses (and college students), I came to the conclusion that it's too risky.

I never said wearing a suit will cause everyone to ostracize him -- something you seem to be inferring from my posts, and which is not at all what I was implying or stating. Nor did I say that it will lead him to being a total "outcast." But it will quite likely cause the majority (if not a very high number) of his classmates to think he's a weirdo. Many of those classmates will not want to associate themselves with him accordingly. They may talk to him. They may be polite to his face. But they'll talk about him behind his back and/or tease him in person. College kids are not the enlightened buddhas you make them out to be. They're kids, not terribly far removed from high school, and they will find him odd. It's human nature. Hell, adults will find someone odd if that someone behaves significantly outside the norm of a given context. It's just a fact of human psychology.

In the interest of saving us both further headaches and the board as a whole further repetition, let's just agree to disagree here. I'll boil our arguments down to two sentences:

1) I don't think wearing a suit to class every day is a great idea.
2) You think he should go for it.

Tomato, tomahto. You have your opinion, and I have mine. There's no way we're ever reaching agreement on this, so we might as well let the kid decide for himself and do what he chooses. It's his life, not mine. I promise not to say "I told you so" when he decides to be "suit guy" and becomes an oddball in his class.

 

[Rosenberg]

do what you want in college because it honestly wont affect anything but your social life. keep in mind that after all that fun **** people who matter will judge you for what you wear, like it or not. suit to an interview= well prepared guy --- suit for no reason= odd guy

 

[Don Carlos]

Originally Posted by Sam Hober

Arrogant Bastard,

I am very easy going no offense taken.

I went to business school awhile ago although it doesn't seem that long ago...

But more importantly, I did not get a MBA, I got a Masters degree in Taxation which means that my student peers were almost without exception already CPAs and attorneys who were all in the work world.

As a side note we considered MBA classes as fun classes that were quite easy - smiling.

Personally, I often wore ties and jackets as an undergraduate but not suits, and never once for a second was there a problem. However, I was in the SF Bay area which may be different than other parts of the country - I do not know.

Also growing up in Marin County you got the sense that you can wear what you like whether it was a suit and tie or T-shirt and jeans.

Quite seriously in the end you need to pick you you want to be friends with and if someone is going to be so judgemental as to not be your friend because you are dressed well, then perhaps students need to think about new friends?

Next, people will judge based on numerous other qualities (the reader can fill in the blanks) that is not good.

Now, keep in mind that I am strongly biased towards nice clothes as I grew up in the fashion business....

Well now, let's be careful not to conflate "dressing nicely" with wearing a suit. One can be dressed casually and still be well dressed -- something I pointed out a few pages back, and something with which I'm sure you can agree. In fact, one of the very first posts I made on this thread counseled the original poster to dress nicely, but to keep it short of a suit. I have nothing against smart casual, or whatever we want to call that wide and highly maneuverable territory between "slob" and "suit."

As for the whole picking your friends thing, etc., etc., etc., fine. As I told the other guy just now, it's a noble sentiment. But I'm a realist, not an idealist. In the real world, you'll have a lot fewer opportunities to make friends in the first place, let alone to worry about picking them, if you behave outside the operating limits of social normalcy. You can be different in some ways, even eccentric. But the greater your chosen level of eccentricity, the greater your odds of being ostracized. In my humble opinion, wearing a suit every day to class on a college campus in 2009 is embarking on a level of eccentricity that is highly inadvisable.

If he wants to be different, I recommend he invest in some nice pants and shoes. And maybe wear some collared, button-up shirts instead of t-shirts. Or wear nice sweaters. Etc. Any of these things will be different, but different in a way that is likely to be admired or respected. Especially by girls. But a suit is going too far.

 

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

]Well, to be fair, you never really articulated which of my statements you thought was a ludicrous generalization, so I took a stab at one. At any rate, no, it's not a ludicrous generalization to assume that dressing in a suit every day will lead to being ostracized. It's highly likely. Again, because you're a statistician and I wish to respect the rules of statistics, I can't say with 100% certainty that wearing a suit will lead to being ostracized. Fair. But let's call it 75%. Even 50%, if that suits you. My point is that, whatever we want to call the odds, I think they're too high for him to risk wearing the suit. My argument is about how much risk he's willing to take on, and given my extensive experience with college campuses (and college students), I came to the conclusion that it's too risky.

Aye, we'll just say I disagree.

Tomato, tomahto. You have your opinion, and I have mine. There's no way we're ever reaching agreement on this, so we might as well let the kid decide for himself and do what he chooses. It's his life, not mine. I promise not to say "I told you so" when he decides to be "suit guy" and becomes an oddball in his class.

Seems like you're implying an inevitability here, like you said you wouln't, eh?

 

[Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

I haven't changed my position since I first started posting on this thread. You've just been misinterpreting or misreading me consistently it seems. In my opinion, and in the opinions of quite a few people on this thread, wearing a suit every day will most likely lead to the kid's being ostracized. I never said it would necessarily and absolutely happen, but rather, that it would almost certainly happen. As such, I recommended that he not wear a suit. If I haven't made that position clear enough so far, such that there has been room to misinterpret me, I apologize.



Well, to be fair, you never really articulated which of my statements you thought was a ludicrous generalization, so I took a stab at one. At any rate, no, it's not a ludicrous generalization to assume that dressing in a suit every day will lead to being ostracized. It's highly likely. Again, because you're a statistician and I wish to respect the rules of statistics, I can't say with 100% certainty that wearing a suit will lead to being ostracized. Fair. But let's call it 75%. Even 50%, if that suits you. My point is that, whatever we want to call the odds, I think they're too high for him to risk wearing the suit. My argument is about how much risk he's willing to take on, and given my extensive experience with college campuses (and college students), I came to the conclusion that it's too risky.

I never said wearing a suit will cause everyone to ostracize him -- something you seem to be inferring from my posts, and which is not at all what I was implying or stating. Nor did I say that it will lead him to being a total "outcast." But it will quite likely cause the majority (if not a very high number) of his classmates to think he's a weirdo. Many of those classmates will not want to associate themselves with him accordingly. They may talk to him. They may be polite to his face. But they'll talk about him behind his back and/or tease him in person. College kids are not the enlightened buddhas you make them out to be. They're kids, not terribly far removed from high school, and they will find him odd. It's human nature. Hell, adults will find someone odd if that someone behaves significantly outside the norm of a given context. It's just a fact of human psychology.

In the interest of saving us both further headaches and the board as a whole further repetition, let's just agree to disagree here. I'll boil our arguments down to two sentences:

1) I don't think wearing a suit to class every day is a great idea.
2) You think he should go for it.

Tomato, tomahto. You have your opinion, and I have mine. There's no way we're ever reaching agreement on this, so we might as well let the kid decide for himself and do what he chooses. It's his life, not mine. I promise not to say "I told you so" when he decides to be "suit guy" and becomes an oddball in his class.

+1

 

[Don Carlos]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

Seems like you're implying an inevitability here, like you said you wouln't, eh?

Let's not get precious when we're just about to bury the hatchet, eh?

 

[Lel]

Originally Posted by Dr Huh?

While "just be yourself" and "don't worry what other people think" are certainly well intentioned sentiments, unless you are taking some sort of business class where wearing a suit might not seem out of place there is really no reason to wear a suit and tie to school. Think about your surroundings and what your classmates are wearing. I'm not suggesting you should look like everyone else, but consider whether it is appropriate to be over dressed in such a casual situation.
Can I only wear a baseball cap at a baseball game? Should I only wear sweats at the gym? Are flip flops only acceptable at the beach? Should sports jerseys only be worn during sporting events? Can I wear a skiing jacket when I'm not skiing? Too many people here are think a lack of a dress code means "dress casual", no it means "dress however you want".

 

[toposopher]

While there is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing tweed, wearing it everyday to State U which gets all of a handful of prep school kids seems less of a fashion statement than a latent inferiority complex. People at Ivy Leagues don't dress like this normally (professors perhaps cling to it more than others, and decreasingly so), and prep schools' dress codes have broken down significantly--it's one thing to have a inoffensively garbed student body, and another thing to be making a class statement and breed elitism.

It's fine to wear whatever since it's college, but be sure it's you wearing the suit and not vice versa. Forgive me if you're just dressing like every other pre-professional; I don't dabble in that stuff.

 

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by toposopher

While there is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing tweed, wearing it everyday to State U which gets all of a handful of prep school kids seems less of a fashion statement than a latent inferiority complex.

Exactly. Throw in some flannels!

 

[Eccentric]

I think a good summary of some of the better advice here would be this: whatever you wear, don't act like an arrogant prick. That will get you ostracized a lot faster than anything you wear.

 

[Oleg]

I think a good summary of some of the better advice here would be this: whatever you wear, don't act like an arrogant prick. That will get you ostracized a lot faster than anything you wear.[/QUOTE]

That and wearing a suit to class, obviously. Next...

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Eccentric

I think a good summary of some of the better advice here would be this: whatever you wear, don't act like an arrogant prick. That will get you ostracized a lot faster than anything you wear.

Wrong.

- B

 

[ramuman]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Wrong.

- B

I still can't believe you used telomere lengths to describe sartorial longevity. That makes you an undeniable badass (from a guy who's research sort of concerns unregulated telomerase activity).

 

[toposopher]

Originally Posted by Eccentric

I think a good summary of some of the better advice here would be this: whatever you wear, don't act like an arrogant prick. That will get you ostracized a lot faster than anything you wear.[/QUOTE]

That and wearing a suit to class, obviously. Next...

Arrogance or obnoxiousness in themselves don't bother me, but the proletariat should know their place.