Grenadine weave etymology

[Kent Wang]

Grenadine syrup (the kind you use in cocktails) has an uncertain etymology. Does anyone know the history behind the name of the grenadine weave?

 

[Don Carlos]

Edit: I just reread your link. Nm.

 

[factorial]

I wouldn't say that the etymology of grenadine syrup is uncertain. It was traditionally made from pomegranate juice, and the term is derived from the word for pomegranate in French, grenade. That in turn can be traced all the way back to Latin pomum granatum, "seeded apple". We also get the English word grenade from the same root. I don't think this helps for the grenadine weave. Dictionary.com gives an origin for the weave sense of the word: 1850–55; < F, perh. after Granada, Spain The alternative possibility would be that someone saw the weave and thought it had a "seeded" appearance similar to a pomegranate. Or maybe grenadiers wore that type of weave...

 

[Parker]

My dictionary says the origin is from the French "grenu" or "grained". As in grained silk.

Not sure if this is correct. Maybe Sator or someone knows.

 

[oscarthewild]

"Grenadine" makes me think of time on the road eating veggie burritos.

Brown eyed women and red grenadine
the bottle was dusty but the liquor was clean
Sound of the thunder with the rain pouring down
and it looks like the old man's getting on

http://arts.ucsc.edu/GDead/AGDL/brown.html

 

[Kent Wang]

Do you think it has something to do with the Spanish city of Granada?

 

[Sam Hober]

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

Do you think it has something to do with the Spanish city of Granada?
Kent, It is hard to say exactly but there is a school of thought that gauza is from Gaza. Gauza is used in Italy for grenadines. Two types a loose weave and a very loose weave.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by Sam Hober

Kent, It is hard to say exactly but there is a school of thought that gauza is from Gaza. Gauza is used in Italy for grenadines. Two types a loose weave and a very loose weave.
This could make sense because the Moorish kingdom of Grenada probably had contact with the middle eastern merchants and weavers. The Spanish, like the rest of the Europeans learned a lot from North Africa, the Middle East and Asia during the dark ages and feudal period. The Spanish already had some good textile traditions and certainly learned many more from the Moors, who believed in finery. If I recall, grenadine ties were always a Spanish specialty, the firm of Richel turning out large numbers of colors and patterned grenadine ties long before their resurgence on the MBs.

 

[Kent Wang]

That makes sense.

Though I've heard of grenadine called English gauze in Italy, which may contradict the Spanish hypothesis.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

That makes sense. Though I've heard of grenadine called English gauze in Italy, which may contradict the Spanish hypothesis.
Except that it was always a strong Spanish offering. Maybe you could call the Richel people and ask?

 

[Sterling Gillette]

Originally Posted by factorial

I wouldn't say that the etymology of grenadine syrup is uncertain. It was traditionally made from pomegranate juice, and the term is derived from the word for pomegranate in French, grenade. That in turn can be traced all the way back to Latin pomum granatum, "seeded apple". We also get the English word grenade from the same root.

I don't think this helps for the grenadine weave. Dictionary.com gives an origin for the weave sense of the word:
1850-55; < F, perh. after Granada, Spain

The alternative possibility would be that someone saw the weave and thought it had a "seeded" appearance similar to a pomegranate. Or maybe grenadiers wore that type of weave...

You do not give an etymology but deliver pure speculation. Says the linguistic student.

 

[radicaldog]

Originally Posted by Sam Hober

Kent,

It is hard to say exactly but there is a school of thought that gauza is from Gaza.

Gauza is used in Italy for grenadines.

Two types a loose weave and a very loose weave.

'Gauza' or 'garza'?

 

[serce]

Originally Posted by radicaldog

'Gauza' or 'garza'?

In Italian: "Garza"

 

[Kent Wang]

Originally Posted by factorial

I wouldn't say that the etymology of grenadine syrup is uncertain. It was traditionally made from pomegranate juice, and the term is derived from the word for pomegranate in French, grenade. That in turn can be traced all the way back to Latin pomum granatum, "seeded apple". We also get the English word grenade from the same root.
How so? I've always wondered about that as well. Is it because a grenade looks like a pomegranate?

 

[factorial]

Originally Posted by Sterling Gillette

You do not give an etymology but deliver pure speculation. Says the linguistic student.

Sure. And nothing is truly certain. After all, how can I know that I'm really typing this and not just dreaming that I'm typing it? Spare me the philosophy and semantic arguments. In the absence of evidence to the contrary I'm going to assume that the etymology for "grenadine syrup" given in the dictionary is correct. And my dictionary happens to say that the word origins are 1700-1710, French, from a diminutive formation of grenade, pomegranate. If you want to trace it back to Proto-Indo-European be my guest.

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

How so? I've always wondered about that as well. Is it because a grenade looks like a pomegranate?
1525–35; < F < Sp granada pomegranate, special use of granado having grains < L grānātus. See grain, -ate 1 So yes, it does appear to come from pomegranate, though it's certainly possible/likely that the first people to use the words were also aware of the word granado, "having grains" or even the Latin word for the same, granatus. I'm sure that there's someone who's done original research on this but unless you're really interested in looking it up you'll have to settle for what the dictionary and Wikipedia have to offer. Here's another source: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none