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Formula 1 - F1 - Current Season Discussion

Texasmade

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Lewis also mentally broke Rosberg and Vettel. Looks like Bottas is also mentally broken now.
 

sugarbutch

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That's why Alonso was one of my favs. Took two championships from Ferrari's hands. 😜

In relation to the comment above of Alonso, I started to watch and rooted for Lewis back when he was in ART back in 2006 if I remember correctly. Stopped rooting for him when he was with Alonso, to me it was clear that he was the guy for McLaren and they ruined Alonso. Just to be clear, I don't hate him, I think he's extremely lucky.
I genuinely believe that Lewis' pace shocked McLaren in 2007 and upset their intention of having Alonso lead the charge while Lewis got up to speed in his rookie year. Had Alonso not betrayed them by going to the FIA and destabilized the team, I think he could have won the championship in 2008.
 

sugarbutch

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Lewis also mentally broke Rosberg and Vettel. Looks like Bottas is also mentally broken now.
You could argue that he kind of broke Alonso, too. The only one he didn't break was Button. That dude's self-belief is incredible.
 

monkey66

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That's why Alonso was one of my favs. Took two championships from Ferrari's hands. 😜

In relation to the comment above of Alonso, I started to watch and rooted for Lewis back when he was in ART back in 2006 if I remember correctly. Stopped rooting for him when he was with Alonso, to me it was clear that he was the guy for McLaren and they ruined Alonso. Just to be clear, I don't hate him, I think he's extremely lucky.
The man has dedicated his entire life to excellence in his sport. He works in margins of improvement that can be measured in thousand'ths of a second. He has categorically and consistently done this better than all his peers. His father worked 3 jobs to fund his early days. He has done this for longer and with more success than anyone else in his sports history. He continues to dedicate his life to the pursuit of driving perfection. He continues to put in world class performance on a regular basis. He also finds the energy to campaign for social issues he believes in. He has become the biggest global star in his sport.

If he found himself in a good car that was because of hard work and talent, not luck.

I guess we have a very different definition of the term 'extremely lucky'.

'Extremely lucky' is the descriptor of lottery winner, not someone who's entire life (and the life of their family), from a child has been dedicated to excellence in their chosen field.

As I said, haters got to hate.
 
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Betelgeuse

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'Extremely lucky' is the descriptor of lottery winner, not someone who's entire life (and the life of their family), from a child has been dedicated to excellence in their chosen field.
This is a good video about that.


And as I said, I don't deny any of his achievements, just wish that there were more competition to say he's the goat. Like Tiger back in the day.
 

sugarbutch

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I don't think its possible to compare drivers from different eras. You can perhaps infer some things about drivers in adjacent periods, like Schumacher to Alonso to Hamilton/Vettel, but saying that anyone is the GOAT is far from an objective exercise. Fangio wouldn't even fit in a modern F1 car, but does that diminish his accomplishment?
 

Texasmade

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I don't think its possible to compare drivers from different eras. You can perhaps infer some things about drivers in adjacent periods, like Schumacher to Alonso to Hamilton/Vettel, but saying that anyone is the GOAT is far from an objective exercise. Fangio wouldn't even fit in a modern F1 car, but does that diminish his accomplishment?
Wasn't Nigel Mansell to big to fit in a car and this was when he was still an active racer?
 

monkey66

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So lucky that he had so much success, all just luck, anyone could have been behind the wheel 🙃


Karting
Hamilton began karting in 1993 and quickly began winning races and cadet class championships.[26][27] Two years later, he became the youngest driver to win the British cadet karting championship at the age of ten. That year, Hamilton approached McLaren Formula One team boss Ron Dennis at the Autosport Awards for an autograph and said, "Hi. I'm Lewis Hamilton. I won the British Championship and one day I want to be racing your cars."[17] Dennis wrote in Hamilton's autograph book, "Phone me in nine years, we'll sort something out then."[28] When Hamilton was 12, Ladbrokes took a bet, at 40/1 odds, that Hamilton would win a Formula One race before the age of 23; another predicted, at 150/1 odds, that he would win the World Drivers' Championship before he was 25.[29] In 1998, Dennis called Hamilton following his second Super One series and British championship wins,[14] to offer Hamilton a role in the McLaren driver development programme.[7] The contract included an option of a future Formula One seat, which would make Hamilton the youngest driver to secure a contract which later resulted in a Formula One drive.[26]

"He's a quality driver, very strong and only 16. If he keeps this up I'm sure he will reach F1. It's something special to see a kid of his age out on the circuit. He's clearly got the right racing mentality."
Michael Schumacher, speaking about Hamilton in 2001.[30]
Hamilton continued his progress in the Intercontinental A (1999), Formula A (2000) and Formula Super A (2001) ranks, and became European Champion in 2000 with maximum points. In Formula A and Formula Super A, racing for TeamMBM.com, his teammate was Nico Rosberg, who would later drive for the Williams and Mercedes teams in Formula One; they would later team up again for Mercedes from 2013 to 2016. Following his karting successes, the British Racing Drivers' Club made him a "Rising Star" Member in 2000.[31] In 2001, Michael Schumacher made a one-off return to karts and competed against Hamilton along with other future Formula One drivers Vitantonio Liuzzi and Nico Rosberg. Hamilton ended the final in seventh, four places behind Schumacher. Although the two saw little of each other on the track, Schumacher praised the young Briton.[32]

Formula Renault and Formula Three
Hamilton began his car racing career in the 2001 British Formula Renault Winter Series, finishing fifth in the standings.[14] This led to a full 2002 Formula Renault UK campaign with Manor Motorsport in which he finished third overall.[33] He remained with Manor for another year, winning the championship ahead of Alex Lloyd.[34] Having clinched the championship, Hamilton missed the last two races of the season to make his debut in the season finale of the British Formula 3 Championship.[35] In his first race he was forced out with a puncture,[36] and in the second he crashed out and was taken to hospital after a collision with teammate Tor Graves.[37]

Asked in 2002 about the prospect of becoming one of the youngest ever Formula One drivers, Hamilton replied that his goal was "not to be the youngest in Formula One" but rather "to be experienced and then show what I can do in Formula One".[38] In 2004, Williams would announce that they had come close to signing Hamilton but did not because BMW, their engine supplier at the time, would not fund him.[39] Hamilton eventually re-signed with McLaren, and made his debut with Manor in the 2004 Formula 3 Euro Series, ending the year fifth in the championship.[40] He also won the Bahrain F3 Superprix[41] and twice raced in the Macau F3 Grand Prix.[42][43] According to then McLaren executive and future CEO Martin Whitmarsh, who was responsible for guiding Hamilton through the team's young driver programme, he and Anthony Hamilton had a "huge row" at the end of the season, with Lewis' father pushing for him to move up to GP2 for 2005 whilst Whitmarsh felt that he should remain in F3 for a second season, culminating in Whitmarsh tearing up Lewis' contract. However, Lewis called Whitmarsh six weeks later and re-signed with the team.[17]

Hamilton first tested for McLaren in late 2004 at Silverstone.[44] Hamilton moved to the reigning Euro Series champions ASM for the 2005 season and dominated the championship, winning 15 of the 20 rounds.[14] He also won the Marlboro Masters of Formula 3 at Zandvoort.[45] After the season British magazine Autosport featured him in their "Top 50 Drivers of 2005" issue, ranking Hamilton 24th.[46]

GP2
Hamilton moved to ASM's sister GP2 team, ART Grand Prix, for the 2006 season.[47] Hamilton won the GP2 championship at his first attempt, beating Nelson Piquet Jr. and Timo Glock.[48] He secured a dominant win at the Nürburgring, despite a penalty for speeding in the pit lane.[49] At his home race at Silverstone, Hamilton overtook two rivals at Becketts, a series of high-speed bends where overtaking is rare.[50] In Istanbul he recovered from a spin that left him in eighteenth place to take second.[51] Hamilton won the title in unusual circumstances, inheriting the final point he needed after Giorgio Pantano was stripped of fastest lap in the Monza feature race.[52]

Hamilton's success in the GP2 championship coincided with a vacancy at McLaren following the departure of Juan Pablo Montoya to NASCAR and Kimi Räikkönen to Ferrari.[53][54] After months of speculation on whether Hamilton, Pedro de la Rosa or Gary Paffett would be paired with defending champion Fernando Alonso for 2007, Hamilton was confirmed as the team's second driver.[55] He was told of McLaren's decision at the end of September, but the news was not made public for almost two months, for fear that it would be overshadowed by Michael Schumacher's retirement announcement.[56]

There is no real way to define the goat but he is without a doubt one of them.

To call his success luck is either hating or trolling, your choice.
 

HRoi

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The driver size discussion reminds me of one of the more entertaining F1 developments - the minimum driver weight rule. In my opinion, there should have been two amendments to make the rule even more entertaining:

1. set the minimum weight not at a static 80kg, but at the measured weight of the heaviest driver for that race. Think about how entertaining it would be to see every driver trying to avoid being the fatass of the week
2. Renaming it the Nico Hulkenberg rule
 

sugarbutch

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Wasn't Nigel Mansell to big to fit in a car and this was when he was still an active racer?
I think Nigel has wider than average hips, and the car was not designed to accommodate him. But after they modified the car to fit him, I think it revealed that he mostly wasn't up for driving that car. Nigel was a weird combination of whinger and warrior.
 

sugarbutch

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And, speaking of hips, I was very fortunate to get a private tour of the Williams factory on the Friday before the 1997 British Grand Prix. After we'd looked at all the cars in the museum, I was given the chance to sit in one car of my choosing. I chose Senna's '94 car. Fit me like a glove. :)
 

Schwazer

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And, speaking of hips, I was very fortunate to get a private tour of the Williams factory on the Friday before the 1997 British Grand Prix. After we'd looked at all the cars in the museum, I was given the chance to sit in one car of my choosing. I chose Senna's '94 car. Fit me like a glove. :)
The last great Williams year.

Villeneuve and Frentzen.

 

Schwazer

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I genuinely believe that Lewis' pace shocked McLaren in 2007 and upset their intention of having Alonso lead the charge while Lewis got up to speed in his rookie year. Had Alonso not betrayed them by going to the FIA and destabilized the team, I think he could have won the championship in 2008.
You pretty much had a 50/50 chance of dying racing in the Fangio era.

Imagine Grosjean or Maldonado racing in that era.

 

edinatlanta

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The last great Williams year.

Villeneuve and Frentzen.

Knowing how much those podium sponsorships cost today and knowing the market penetration of those two brands today, I am legitimately amazed that not that long ago they could have a marquee sponsorship like that.
 

sugarbutch

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Knowing how much those podium sponsorships cost today and knowing the market penetration of those two brands today, I am legitimately amazed that not that long ago they could have a marquee sponsorship like that.
According to Wikipedia, the Campari Group owns 45% of global liquor brands by sales. They could probably afford to sponsor the podium again if they wanted to.
 

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