Expensive Suits - Can anyone tell

[Caustic Man]

That's specifically what I was thinking of. I don't know if shoulders and chest are the most difficult part of a jacket to get right, but a decently fitting shoulder and chest certainly seems to be the most difficult thing to find OTR.

 

[David Reeves]



That's specifically what I was thinking of. I don't know if shoulders and chest are the most difficult part of a jacket to get right, but a decently fitting shoulder and chest certainly seems to be the most difficult thing to find OTR.

The fusing especially cheap ones that are heavy don't help...so right there theres a difference in fit because of construction and thats just talking about the quality of fusible's used. Comparing a cheap fused canvas to a good hand padded one will result in much better fit around the chest and shoulders on a like for like garment.

 

[Astaroth]

You are just wrong. Better construction methods do effect fit dramatically even if we are just talking about quality control. Fundamentally if garments are assembled or tailored properly they tend to fit better and this skill in labor and the time needed for proper construction as well as QC comes with a premium.

Prestige of the brand has nothing to do with it, but I would often say, that usually, success comes more from talent and hard work, rather than luck.

Something that doesnt fit isnt going to fit no matter how its constructed. If something fits ok then yes it can appear better with better construction methods.

Easiest way to solve it, if you're ever in London then you can show me in person how this better construction from the brands you mention fit me better than my much cheaper but bespoke jackets despite the fact that Tom Ford's own MTM guy said that they'd not recommend me buying their MTM suits let alone OTR.

 

[Caustic Man]

Perhaps you can clarify what it is you're talking about. The claim was concerning construction and quality control. Reeves said that, all else being equal, better construction yields a better fit and that garments that are constructed properly will fit better. So I'm not sure where the example of your bespoke garments comes into play, unless you are suggesting that they are inferior in construction, but fit you better since they were tailored properly.

 

[gs77]

Something that doesn't fit isn't going to fit no matter how its constructed. If something fits OK then yes it can appear better with better construction methods.

Easiest way to solve it, if you're ever in London then you can show me in person how this better construction from the brands you mention fit me better than my much cheaper but bespoke jackets despite the fact that Tom Ford's own MTM guy said that they'd not recommend me buying their MTM suits let alone OTR.

Here is the stupid article that was recently discussed here. Maybe it will give you some answer.

http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-suit-that-couldnt-be-copied

Tom Form has very distinctive cut. I am tall and in reasonably good shape. I had to up-size in their most generous cut. I still looked terrifying - over aggressive and intimidating. Doesn't go well with my character.

Edit: didn't buy the suit. Just wanted to see what's all the buzz

 

[Astaroth]

The claim was concerning construction and quality control. Reeves said that, all else being equal, better construction yields a better fit and that garments that are constructed properly will fit better. So I'm not sure where the example of your bespoke garments comes into play, unless you are suggesting that they are inferior in construction, but fit you better since they were tailored properly.

And I am saying that for the biggest bang for your buck, in terms of other people noticing that you are in something better than the average person, you are better off spending your money on superior fit than on higher end fabrics, brand names, QC, hand finishing etc but I was told this was wrong as buying better construction with brands such as Tom Ford would automatically be a better fit.

My comments on bespoke was exactly that; many of mine are at the entry level of the UK (bespoke rather than MTM) and so aren't the highest end construction methods in the world but when wearing a £900 bespoke suit to a Tom Ford MTM event where entry level suits were circa £4,000 from memory their "head cutter from Italy" (as introduced by the sales assistant) said that they couldnt achieve as good a result for me as I already had in the suit I was wearing.

QC is actually more of an interesting thing. Technically it doesnt make the quality better but simply ensures that all items are produced to the same quality. Design a suit that is too wide in the shoulder for 90% of people and having the best QC in the world won't improve the fit for the 90% of people. There are some things where QC is very important - brakes on my car, a heart pacemaker etc but for other things it may be more questionable if its worth paying X% more -v- doing your own checking of the quality and deciding if/which to buy based on your own assessment.

 

[Spruce Moose]

^^ To the above, and keep in mind I understand it is relative but I wouldn't consider a 900 quid suit cheap. With the exchange rate that is roughly a Canali suit.

 

[smittycl]

Seems like everyone is talking around each other to some extent. Construction is paramount. A $300 Jos.A. Bank may fit in all the right areas but the cheap workmanship will show on closer inspection. I've had them and they are uncomfortable. A $3k Zegna that also fits will show expert shoulder construction and the full canvas chest will only get better over time. The fabrics will hold up over time and are much more comfortable to wear. Brands like Zegna, Canali, etc earned their reputations and their QC is fantastic. Also, the suits with the most expert workmanship actually last.

Makes me think of Hugo Boss suits. Attention getting cut and interesting looking fabric but still fused and not very well made. They don't really last either.

Tom Ford is a fashion suit anyway (made by Zegna at their Couture level I believe) and maybe not the best example to use for fit. They are made for Eddy Redmayne-types who eat celery for lunch or Daniel Craig who works out hours a day to stay 007-fit.

 

[Caustic Man]

@Astaroth I don't think you and Reeves are talking about the same thing. He is saying that, all else being equal (the equal part being essential to understanding his point), a jacket made with better construction and QC will tend to fit better. This is absolutely true. You, on the other hand, seem to be talking about fabric quality, hand stitched detailing, and brand names. Essentially, you are both arguing different points so it's no wonder you can't come to an agreement.

Reeves isn't saying that expensive brands, high cost fabrics, and hand stitched details will make a suit fit better, and I believe he actually said this to you. What he is saying, however, is that a properly constructed jacket is made to mold itself to a person's body and that fact will provide a better fit. When you say that your cheaper bespoke garments fit better than a Tom Ford suit costing thousands more, it has no bearing on the conversation because the two aren't equal.

It would be better to compare two bespoke jackets that you had made for yourself. One with the so-called cheap construction that you mention, and one with what Reeves calls "proper" construction. I don't think you, nor anyone else, would be surprised if the properly constructed jacket fit you better.

 

[Caustic Man]

Seems like everyone is talking around each other to some extent.

Exactly right.

 

[Astaroth]

@Astaroth When you say that your cheaper bespoke garments fit better than a Tom Ford suit costing thousands more, it has no bearing on the conversation because the two aren't equal.

It would be better to compare two bespoke jackets that you had made for yourself. One with the so-called cheap construction that you mention, and one with what Reeves calls "proper" construction. I don't think you, nor anyone else, would be surprised if the properly constructed jacket fit you better.

The original question was, to paraphrase slightly, "can the average person tell how expensive your suit is?"

If the two are equal or not is irrelevant to the discussion, the question is if the person on the other side of the table can tell if you are wearing a £900 suit or a £4,000 suit. My answer, that has been challenged, is that to the average person would rate a £900 suit that fits very well higher than a £4,000 suit that doesnt fit as well. I happen to also disagree that a £4,000 suit is more likely to fit better than a £900 suit but that isnt relevant to the original question.

 

[smittycl]

Exactly right.

Funny how these new forums pop up. I notice them on the Styleforum front page as recent activity. Is there a better way to track new stuff? Seems like I just haphazardly stumble on them.

I guess following specific individuals works even if it seems a bit sycophantic...

 

[Caustic Man]

The original question was, to paraphrase slightly, "can the average person tell how expensive your suit is?"

Yes, but you were responding to Reeves specifically, and he was responding to a specific point that you made. If you were, in fact, responding to the OP then you are being very unclear about whose statements you are addressing.

Funny how these new forums pop up. I notice them on the Styleforum front page as recent activity. Is there a better way to track new stuff? Seems like I just haphazardly stumble on them.

I guess following specific individuals works even if it seems a bit sycophantic...

You could just pass the time like I do, scouring this place until it's time to play video games.

 

[Astaroth]

Yes, but you were responding to Reeves specifically, and he was responding to a specific point that you made. If you were, in fact, responding to the OP then you are being very unclear about whose statements you are addressing.

I responded to the OP, Reeves commented on my answer, I responded to Reeves comment on my answer to the OP..... the chain goes back to the original Q

 

[smittycl]

Yes, but you were responding to Reeves specifically, and he was responding to a specific point that you made. If you were, in fact, responding to the OP then you are being very unclear about whose statements you are addressing.




You could just pass the time like I do, scouring this place until it's time to play video games.

Great minds think alike. No Man's Sky finally downloaded on my PC so I can play tonight. About time as I paid for the #$%! thing months ago.

I do prefer just bumping into these forums anyway.