Cleans vs. Pendlay Rows

[adversity04]

Originally Posted by milosz

If you're counting on "lats just big enough for a nice taper" to get laid, you're going to be a virgin long after Conne finally gets a piece.

 

[william]

I'm still learning how to do power cleans correctly. I'm almost there. It's a challenging lift and I enjoy spending time mastering it.

Luckily I've got a friend who completed a barbell certification by Rip that trains me when he's in town. He's 20 years old, kinda short, not very big and at the moment is squatting 400+ and deadlifting 440 for sets across. Insane.

 

[william]

Also...I don't how there could be a "cleans vs. rows" debate as they are completely different exercises..

 

[Grayland]

I don't think anyone was saying the exercises are all that similar. If you're just starting out, many people recommend a steady diet of heavy barbell compound exercises. Squats, deadlifts, bench press for sure, then pick a few of ..... rows, military press, dips, pull-ups, power cleans. I know they hit different areas, but the idea is to lift some heavy freaking weight and get away from the "what body part does it develop?" mentality.

Do rows or power cleans; hell, do them both. Either way, you're way ahead of the guy doing mostly isolation exercises.

 

[Mblova]

Hell, he should be doing deadlifts AND powercleans. Talk about gaining strength.

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

Originally Posted by Mblova

Hell, he should be doing deadlifts AND powercleans. Talk about gaining strength.

I think it's pretty safe to assume he's already doing squats, dead-lifts and presses as well, since they're all part of Starting Strength.

 

[william]

The Starting Strength program is a result of 30+ years of Rippetoe's experience coaching and competing in strength sports. I'm not going to tamper with it.

To each his own of course.

 

[asdf]

cleans are much harder to learn, as shown by how approximately 94.63% of people do them incorrectly. although they involve scapular retraction, it is isometric and therefore probably not as beneficial for postural training and not as good for, as you seem to desire, developing teh latzorz.

BOR's and pendlay rows are pretty sweet and pretty easy to learn. if you are going to do one, I would do pendlay rows.

 

[Becks23]

When I do complexes I go from a high-pull/clean to a pendlay row.

High-pull isn't a bad exercise but has some of the benefits of a clean.

 

[dimshum]

I think in terms of athleticism, the power clean has much more application than do rows. Rows are great for adding mass, but don't train speed/power as well as power cleans. It does, however, add massive trap size. Rows train you back, but so do deadlifts. And, if you're concerned with lat size, the pullups overcome that.

If you train your deadlift heavy, you WILL have a huge middle/upper back (thoracic). Stick to power cleans. If you can't/don't know how then I would assume that rows would be okay. Honestly though, if you can deadlift, you can definitely power clean. Pull that sucker to the middle of your thigh, shrug and squeeze your glutes explosively and catch.

 

[why]

Originally Posted by dimshum

Honestly though, if you can deadlift, you can definitely power clean.

Not really. Power cleans are a lot more technical because of the catch.

 

[Grayland]

Originally Posted by why

Not really. Power cleans are a lot more technical because of the catch.

I agree.

 

[dimshum]

I don't know if I agree. If you're talking about cleans then the technically, yes, it's difficult. If you're talking power cleans, it's a much simpler movement. Although, I guess I'm basing it off of personal experience. To each his own.

 

[Invicta]

Originally Posted by dimshum

I don't know if I agree. If you're talking about cleans then the technically, yes, it's difficult. If you're talking power cleans, it's a much simpler movement. Although, I guess I'm basing it off of personal experience. To each his own.

Well of course, in order of technical difficulty it goes something like this:

snatch>clean>power clean>.....>walking>pendaly rows

Explosive movements are always more technically difficult that static isolation movements.

To the OP: As william said before, they're different exercises, do both. In fact in honor of this threak my workout today included both full squat cleans and pendaly rows. It was glorious.

 

[John152]

Originally Posted by william

The Starting Strength program is a result of 30+ years of Rippetoe's experience coaching and competing in strength sports. I'm not going to tamper with it.

To each his own of course.


This. There was some question on the strengthmill Q&A about subbing x exercise for y excercise and Rippetoe's answer was along the lines of if you want to fine, but you're not doing SS anymore.



And If I had to do an order of difficulty for the lifts it would be Clean>Snatch>Power Clean even though Greg Everett says (and I agree) that depth of the catch in a clean or power clean is more a function of weight lifted than anything else. You can force yourself to squat clean 45lbs, but it would be much more natural to catch it in the power clean position, while if you're moving 300lbs it would be more natural to drop underneath the bar and squat clean it.