Blacks and Jews

[jpeirpont]

Is this thread indicitive of some animosity Blacks have towards Jews?
I'm Black and I was always under the assumption that Jews were our closest allies among the white groups. Has something changed I know don't about.
I don't know if there are many Jews or Blacks on the site , but I'd love to hear some insight on the subject.

 

[DNW]

If you think it's always between us and them, it will always be between us and them.

 

[tiger02]

Wow, lots of hatred and unfocused anger there, seeking a target. BrothaGrimm seems to have a good handle on the situation. Some people just need a "man" to "keep them down" so that they can feel righteous in their indignation. This goes across ethnic lines.

I think, and this is speaking from a white guy's position, that ethnic rivalries in America nowadays are pretty useless. There are too many examples of successful people from every ethnic group for anyone to consider themselves unable to improve because 'Jews are keeping them down' or whatever.

 

[stach]

From your post I assumed you were referring to a thread on this forum. Why bring up what's being posted on another forum?

 

[jpeirpont]

Originally Posted by stach

From your post I assumed you were referring to a thread on this forum. Why bring up what's being posted on another forum?

Because I wanted to hear this forum's members comments on the thread and the topic.

 

[Yudi]

Speaking as a Jew myself, I will say that myself and my family have always identified with black people as a fellow race that can understand what it is like to be oppressed and hated just for being who you are.

I grew up in South Africa and we and all the Jews I knew used to vote for the one white party that was in favour of giving blacks more rights and creating a more equal South Africa. We knew that it was futile and they would always lose, but we voted for them nonetheless because it was the right thing to do. My father's firm was also the first major company in their region of South Africa to employ a black man as their warehouse manager, and they gave it to him because he merited the job.

I know that in my experience, blacks have always been a group that I and other Jews I have known have associated with and campaigned for.

After reading the thread on the link you posted, it is apparent to me that some of the people on there just have an agenda with Jews for whatever reason. The one guy who has a massive post about how awful Jews are has twisted and manipulated alot of facts to try and get his message over and it's a shame that he feels so much hatred that he needs to do this.

I will say this - regardless of what has happened in the past or what people may feel about other races of all kinds, the only thing hatred achieves is more hatred. If you spend your life spewing forth doctrine about how this or that religion or race is awful because of what they have done to your race, all you are doing is renewing that cycle of hatred and preserving it for the next generation. If, however, you try and find some common ground and work towards repairing the damage of the past and bringing people closer together then there is no boundary that can not be broken.

 

[Bradford]

I'm not black or jewish, but I thought there was some animosity between parts of those two groups. Anyone else remember the Tawanna Brawley incident? Didn't that set off some pretty bad rioting and bad feelings?

Plus, what's with the first poster on that other thread talking about "The Protocols of Zion"? Now, I haven't seen the documentary to which they were referring, but I thought "The Protocols" have been pretty well discredited and have actually been proved to have been a hoax written by anti-semites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protoco...Elders_of_Zion

I really find it hard to believe that a documentary on HBO would say anything else, so it's quite disturbing that the threadstarter on the other forum would just bring it up without giving some background and imply that it is a real document.

Honestly, the OP on the other forum really just seems to be stirring up trouble and it's people like this that probably continue any animosity that exists between the two groups.

 

[muelleran]

I looked over that thread and the line of thought presented by some people there and the "evidence" they produce is as old as it is uncalled for.
Why this argumentation has to be brought up over and over again beats me.
There were so many other demented individuals before who made a philosophy out of it.

Alfred Rosenberg

 

[Edward Appleby]

Originally Posted by Yudi

Speaking as a Jew myself, I will say that myself and my family have always identified with black people as a fellow race that can understand what it is like to be oppressed and hated just for being who you are.
I don't think that there's a single ethnic group in history that hasn't been "opressed and hated just for being [what it is]" at some point. Or, to put it another way, there isn't a single group that hasn't done the opressing at one point or another. It just depends on how far back you want to draw the arbitrary line. In fact, there's some evidence that our entire species is stained by the genocide of other hominins. No one has a monopoly on victimhood, and until we stop thinking in terms of an eye for an eye, the cycle will continue.

 

[life_interrupts]

I just returned from Israel last week. As an African American, lasped Christian with a background in history, it was a fascinating experience. In light of current events, I'm glad I was able to go.

The political and spirtual aside, Israel has a deep commitment to a Jewish state, to the detriment (intended or not) of the other religious groups and ethnic minorities (there are Arab Jews, but the majority of the Jewish population of Israel is made up of those who've emigrated since 1948, and is dominated by thos of the European/Western descent). The interpretation of Israel's history is told through that lens and was consistent throughout the 2 dozen cultural tourism sites my wife and I (note: I should mention she's Jewish and we were on a tour with 15 other people from her family's synagogue). It basically runs this way: after Moses leads the Israelites out of bondage, Joshua leads them into Israel where they defeat local groups and take their rightful place in Israel. There is Jewish occupancy (with Roman oversight) until the fall of the 2nd Temple @ 66 CE. For the next 2,000 years, Jews are dispersed throughout the world, hounded from place to place (culminating in the Holocaust), until the founding of Israel in 1948. Israel fights for her right to exist and grows into a strong sovereign state. Israel believes in its right to exist at all costs, a view which many Americans, Jews and gentiles, share.

I offer this lenghty intro this because basic of commonality between American blacks and Jews lies in freedom from slavery, the battle for the right to exist, and the atrocities committed to both groups to deny them. The similarities between the Jewish Diaspora and African Diaspora led to the alliances between African Americans and American Jews. This is an issue of true fellowship and political expedience: two groups recognize their common plight; one has numbers and another has (more) means. Social justice truly knows no color and to have change for some, you have to fight for the rights of all. The Civil Rights movement benefitted both groups. That being said, there are quarters within both camps that like to wallow and have a pity-party about whose been treated worse historically. Comparing scars will not help either group.

There's been much made of the role of Jewish Americans in the Civil Right movement and whether the movement was usurped by them. I don't think that's true. A lot of good people participated in the movement: white, black, Latino, Christian, and Jewish. Nor do I think there's some diabolical plot by Zionists to take over the world. Some will say that ultimately Jews could be "white" when it suited them (name changes, not practicing the faith), leaving blacks behind, who bought the American dream, but couldn't out run the color of the racist past, and taking the spoils. I don't know about that either, but I'm on the far side of the civil right movement-- with integrated schools and neighborhoods, busing, white hip-hop artists and black rock stars. I'm not saying it's all peaches and cream (no pun intended), but it's moving forward.

Someone mentioned Tawanna Brawley, but I think you're referring to the event in Crown Heights.

 

[zjpj83]

Very sad to read that. Very sad.

 

[Quirk]

Originally Posted by DarkNWorn

If you think it's always between us and them, it will always be between us and them.

Exactly.

 

[globetrotter]

glad you enjoyed your stay - one minor correction, which is a little known fact: more than 51% of israeli jews had at least 2 grandparents who came from a muslim dominated land, either in africa or asia.

Originally Posted by life_interrupts

I just returned from Israel last week. As an African American, lasped Christian with a background in history, it was a fascinating experience. In light of current events, I'm glad I was able to go.

The political and spirtual aside, Israel has a deep commitment to a Jewish state, to the detriment (intended or not) of the other religious groups and ethnic minorities (there are Arab Jews, but the majority of the Jewish population of Israel is made up of those who've emigrated since 1948, and is dominated by thos of the European/Western descent). The interpretation of Israel's history is told through that lens and was consistent throughout the 2 dozen cultural tourism sites my wife and I (note: I should mention she's Jewish and we were on a tour with 15 other people from her family's synagogue). It basically runs this way: after Moses leads the Israelites out of bondage, Joshua leads them into Israel where they defeat local groups and take their rightful place in Israel. There is Jewish occupancy (with Roman oversight) until the fall of the 2nd Temple @ 66 CE. For the next 2,000 years, Jews are dispersed throughout the world, hounded from place to place (culminating in the Holocaust), until the founding of Israel in 1948. Israel fights for her right to exist and grows into a strong sovereign state. Israel believes in its right to exist at all costs, a view which many Americans, Jews and gentiles, share.

I offer this lenghty intro this because basic of commonality between American blacks and Jews lies in freedom from slavery, the battle for the right to exist, and the atrocities committed to both groups to deny them. The similarities between the Jewish Diaspora and African Diaspora led to the alliances between African Americans and American Jews. This is an issue of true fellowship and political expedience: two groups recognize their common plight; one has numbers and another has (more) means. Social justice truly knows no color and to have change for some, you have to fight for the rights of all. The Civil Rights movement benefitted both groups. That being said, there are quarters within both camps that like to wallow and have a pity-party about whose been treated worse historically. Comparing scars will not help either group.

There's been much made of the role of Jewish Americans in the Civil Right movement and whether the movement was usurped by them. I don't think that's true. A lot of good people participated in the movement: white, black, Latino, Christian, and Jewish. Nor do I think there's some diabolical plot by Zionists to take over the world. Some will say that ultimately Jews could be "white" when it suited them (name changes, not practicing the faith), leaving blacks behind, who bought the American dream, but couldn't out run the color of the racist past, and taking the spoils. I don't know about that either, but I'm on the far side of the civil right movement-- with integrated schools and neighborhoods, busing, white hip-hop artists and black rock stars. I'm not saying it's all peaches and cream (no pun intended), but it's moving forward.

Someone mentioned Tawanna Brawley, but I think you're referring to the event in Crown Heights.

 

[Englandmj7]

I recall the Crown Heights incident from my American cultures studies......definitely made it seem as though there was some innate hostility.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Heights_Riot

 

[faustian bargain]

damn, i thought this was going to be a thread about the candy man: