'Bespoke' - Does it still have a relvance within the contemporary fashion market?

[andrea1986]

Hi my name is Andrea. This is my first time posting a thread so I am just getting used to it! I am a student studying Contemporary Applied Arts Degree. I am starting my third year in October so I am just starting to research my disseratation title......

'Bespoke' - Does it still have a relvance within the contemporary fashion market?

I would appreciate any answers to this question, along with any information about the history of bespoke/ Savile Row/ menswear/ women's wear/
te impact of tailoring in today's society
finanial impact of todays society
does mass produced goods have an impact on bespoke garments and accessories?

Any comments would be very much appreciated
thank you

 

[stilmacher]

I think it is important to differenciate between fashion and what bespoke is about. Bespoke clothing is not subject to fashion as much as ie suits from Gucci or Christian Dior are. Of course there are also trends in bespoke but not like in fashion.

It is my believe that whilst fashion becomes more and more pre-dominant these days bespoke is the exclusive other side of the coin. Fashion is to fit in and adapt marketing ideas as ones personality, bespoke is to stand out to to express individual style.

 

[Sator]

Bespoke is still the ultimate when in comes to true style and quality. Only with bespoke do you truly wear your own clothes. For clothes made to fit everybody end up fitting nobody and the most important element of style is fit. However, the textile industry has done admirably well to convince the masses that some gaudy label on an inferior RTW textile is worth infinitely more than quality or fit. Such is the power of advertising in selling dreams - a false illusion of quality. There was a time when the ultra rich would have their own family dress maker and tailor. They were hired by the family and made nothing without their consent - thus ensuring absolute exclusivity. They would refuse to condescend to wear some generic RTW item made for anybody with enough cash to make a grab for it. Today the ultra rich - mostly the nouveau riches - have been bedazzled by advertising into buying whatever RTW (made-for-everybody-and-nobody) textile is made fashionable - so they can display the gaudy 'designer' label. Quality or enduring elegance here is something of only fleeting concern - the label is everything.

 

[Sator]

Actually, on second thought I think I failed to answer the question directly which was: "'Bespoke' - does it still have a relevance within the contemporary fashion market?". The answer is NO. None whatsoever. The contemporary fashion market, or more correctly, the textile industry, is about how the mass market buyer can be deceived into paying as much money money as possible for mass produced second rate textiles. This is what fashion shows, advertising, paying money to celebrities to wear the 'label' etc is concerned with. Bespoke is by necessity a cottage boutique model of selling. Once it grows out of the cottage boutique model by growing too big, the name of the founder gets licensed out and put on cheap and nasty Chinese massed produced junk as a marketing tool. A cottage boutique store can rarely afford enough commercial advertising to use deception to sell junk, so instead it has to rely on selling high end, high quality products which recommend themselves. The closest thing to 'advertising' tends to be word of mouth. The reason why Style Forum is such a great thing is that it is a modern, electronic form of 'word of mouth'. That is why we single out high end cottage boutique products for the greatest of praise. That is why we pour scorn on reputations built almost entirely on advertising hype. I get the feeling that students such as you, who are drawn into the modern fashion industry enter with admirable ideals of being creative and producing clothes of great elegance and influence. However, the harsh reality is that 99.9% of those in a highly cut throat industry end up being caught up in a massive industrial infrastructure designed only to find ever more deceitful ways of convincing the masses that their poor quality junk is the latest thing you have to own. Seen from the perspectives of the very midst of that industrial infrastructure, 'bespoke' can only seem something utterly contemptible and irrelevant.

 

[william]

And again I'm reminded why Sator is one of the best posters in all the message boards...

 

[andrea1986]

Thank you for your comments they have been very useful and have enabled me to research further links. Thank you

 

[SUPER K]

I would add that as Savile Row is the benchmark, there is some "trickle down" influence. Ralph Lauren Purple Label is a good example. Several newer Savile Row tailors are "consultants" for major brands. Surely they bring some influence from their background. Current example: I was at Saks this past weekend, and noted jackets with two of the sleeve buttons unbuttoned. On examination, they were made to be unbuttoned, the button holes were sewn closed with the buttons out, not really working cuffs at all, but a copy.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by andrea1986

Thank you for your comments they have been very useful and have enabled me to research further links. Thank you

Welcome!

I would truly recommend that to further your understanding of not only bespoke, but of RTW and street styles, as well, I would recommend that you read and participate in the forum, the information that can be had in here, with the exception of maybe AAAC is second to none.

Jon.

 

[Jared]

Hi Andrea. There has been talk since the dot-com era of mass-customization of consumer goods. This is supposed to offer bespoke fit at ready-to-wear prices (more realistically made-to-measure fit). It's still largely vapourware, but there should be lots of recent stuff written about the concept that you can cite.

 

[Dragon]

I disagree with most of the ideas shared so far.

My view is that bespoke is influenced by fashion and fashion is influenced by bespoke. Maybe not HEAVILY influenced but there is still some influence. For example, a bespoke customer might decide to get a jacket today with skinny lapels, pick materials (like black) that are often seen in modern fashion. Fashion might show something next season, which the designer was influenced from seeing a bespoke piece worn by a stylish man (maybe 5 buttons on the sleeve, for example).

I think this forum sometimes does not understand fashion. Fashion is about selling design and image. Most of what you are paying for is not material or construction, but the actual design and image. If the material and construction happen to be top notch too, you pay even more.

In bespoke you are basically designing your own product. Construction and materials aside (because each bespoke is different) you are basically paying for the ability to design your own clothes. Since bespoke customers are influenced by modern fashion (whether they know it or not) the designs they create will reflect some modern fashion.

In any design, there is usually a trickle down effect. You can see this in cars often. A top of the line, expensive car will come out with a new design and several seasons later, you will see the next line in the class pyramid reflect some of the new designs. Bespoke (or actually stylish men wearing top of the line bespoke) are the top of the pyramid in style and fashion. Modern fashion designers often take certain points from bespoke and incorporate them into their themes for the season.

Modern fashion is everything from the most expensive, and cutting edge Chanel, Gucci, etc. to the stuff you see in cheap stores. Bespoke is everything from the superb Rubinacci jackets (shared by iammatt) seen on this forum to stuff that doesn`t even look nearly as good as cheap RTW (shared by ?...just joking). Both (fashion and bespoke) require a design to start, and in design there is influence whether you are aware or not. As bespoke is the top of the pyramid, bespoke will always have influence in modern fashion.

 

[dkzzzz]

"Mass-exclusivity" became a term in marketing thanks to Bespoke and MTM.

Bespoke does not live in a time-capsule vacuum-sealed from the rest of the world . Of course there are cross—pollinations between Bespoke and Fashion.
After all Bespoke is customer's ideas fulfilled by skilful craftsmen. Customer, no matter how sophisticated he/she might be is always influenced by media and trends.

P>S> Sorry Dragon . I should have read your post

 

[kitonbrioni]

There's a serious academic study by Joan DeJean--"The Essence of Style: How the French Invented High Fashion, Fine Food, Chic Cafes, Style, Sophistication, and Glamour" (Free Press 2005). Basically, before Louis XIV all clothing was bespoke. "Before the fashion revolution of the 1670s, made-to-measure [which is what DeJean calls what is called on this forum bespoke]--one-offs, as the English say--was all there was. ... This meant that each outfit was unique--and that was no fun. For high fashion thrills are all about imitation...." (pp, 37-38).