Australian Members

[apropos]



Manton and I do not agree on everything, but 95% of the time we get to the same conclusions differently. Sometimes he is facetious in his tone (you'd be a fool to take his faux imperiousness literally), but he is always worth listening carefully to. The forum was much more interesting and better dressed when his participation was appreciated.

+1

You need to master the rules before you should try breaking them. Nearly every one of Mantons fits have been home runs, can we say the same about WAYWRN or this thread?

What we have a lot of instead on SF now are young, strongly aspirational* guys who are looking for the easy, quick way to the top, who are looking to take short cuts.

Instead of internalising rules, understanding them and then dressing accordingly, their locus of control is external - what's on sale, what I find in the thrift shop, what I see on tumblr, what's hot at Pitti, what's trending on #menswear, what fellow idiot-savants are hot under the collar about (e.g. navy cordovan boots).

Of course when you know nothing everything can look good to you. Instead of concluding that the rules don't really matter, consider instead that it's because you know nothing.

It's a sad state of affairs.

* - photos are often snapshots of a lifestyle, with the clothing being merely an accessory to the implied prestige of said lifestyle. Why post a photo of an outfit that tells me nothing about the fit, and with such poor colour balance that I can't tell anything about the colours either? Who gives a **** that you're drinking a glass of whiskey at a bar? Am I meant to be impressed by the fact that you're paying 6x the cost to drink outside? You're on f*cking SF, not WhiskeyForum.

 

[LonerMatt]

The 'rules' appear neither consistent, accessible or cross-contextual. Accessibility is the big issue from my perspective (someone who is completely baffled by 'the' rules or what they are or where to find them).

As a slight, there is a particular snide attitude that comes from people versed in a hierarchy that is quite repulsive a lot of the time. One can be informative without being patronising, condescending or rude - and there are plenty of people around who are helpful and polite/understanding (fxh comes to mind). Some people seem to act as if knowing how to dress gives them a free pass on manners, then get miffed when people discount their ideas.

You need to master the rules before you should try breaking them. Nearly every one of Mantons fits have been home runs, can we say the same about WAYWRN or this thread?


Of course when you know nothing everything can look good to you. Instead of concluding that the rules don't really matter, consider instead that it's because you know nothing.

It's a sad state of affairs.

While I am not disagreeing I have to point out that what works for some won't work for others. Manton's fits (looking back as obviously I wasn't here when he was posting consistently) are great, but they don't generalise as much as I feel you're implying. While there is, undoubtedly, plenty to learn and think about I, at least, could not dress like him without being prohibited in my job.

Perhaps this isn't the forum for people in my situation, but at least the Australian Members thread is incredibly informative and there's plenty to learn about how to compromise rather than fail across the board.

...and not to mention that one of the reasons for posting fits is to find ways of improving fits, or double checking how well one has played by 'the rules'.

 

[Nicholas D C]

@LonerMatt: indeed, thoughtful and helpful post. I've been amazed by how brilliantly helpful and thoughtful the Australian members thread participants generally are. Have been lurking for a couple years before I joined and was immediately attracted to the discourse and atmosphere of this thread.
However, then there's...
@apropos: Yeah, no.

I think you need to take a sedative and go back and read my initial post whilst paying attention to tone. In no way was I criticising the conventional wisdom, I merely wanted to know if a white shirt with brown jacket as pictured worked. I thought it did, but my friend didn't, hence the motivation for the post. Secondly, this was the only photo I had of the outfit as I don't tend to lug an SLR to celebratory events. I appreciate the quality of the photo isn't perfect, but it was a lighthearted and simple post - not a life and death matter as you seem to think is the case. I'm surprised with the bitter and frankly banal quality of your post. Lightening up is well advised.

 

[blahman]



The 'rules' appear neither consistent, accessible or cross-contextual. Accessibility is the big issue from my perspective (someone who is completely baffled by 'the' rules or what they are or where to find them).

As a slight, there is a particular snide attitude that comes from people versed in a hierarchy that is quite repulsive a lot of the time. One can be informative without being patronising, condescending or rude - and there are plenty of people around who are helpful and polite/understanding (fxh comes to mind). Some people seem to act as if knowing how to dress gives them a free pass on manners, then get miffed when people discount their ideas.




While I am not disagreeing I have to point out that what works for some won't work for others. Manton's fits (looking back as obviously I wasn't here when he was posting consistently) are great, but they don't generalise as much as I feel you're implying. While there is, undoubtedly, plenty to learn and think about I, at least, could not dress like him without being prohibited in my job.

Perhaps this isn't the forum for people in my situation, but at least the Australian Members thread is incredibly informative and there's plenty to learn about how to compromise rather than fail across the board.

...and not to mention that one of the reasons for posting fits is to find ways of improving fits, or double checking how well one has played by 'the rules'.

I fully disagree. fxh is a bit of a twat.

 

[TehBunny]

Anyone know I'd double monk offer a package deal? E.g. If I go with:
C&J: 485
Shoe trees: x amount (not sure)
Plus some polish: x amount (let's say I buy polish for about the same as the trees)
Do you reckon they'd be willing to take one of the x's off or are they one of the strict pricing people?
You reckon this will fetch a ill less than 550? That's the deal I made with the wife.

 

[LonerMatt]

blahman - I know it's pretty cool to deliberately not see the forest from the trees, but really stop being so petty.

 

[blahman]



Anyone know I'd double monk offer a package deal? E.g. If I go with:
C&J: 485
Shoe trees: x amount (not sure)
Plus some polish: x amount (let's say I buy polish for about the same as the trees)
Do you reckon they'd be willing to take one of the x's off or are they one of the strict pricing people?
You reckon this will fetch a ill less than 550? That's the deal I made with the wife.

Surely it's worth a try. They're a small business and if you ask nicely and they're not making a loss they can probably be a little flexible about it.

 

[Marbles]



blahman - I know it's pretty cool to deliberately not see the forest from the trees, but really stop being so petty.

Matt, have you taken the time to read the whole thread? I have over a few months and can tell you that there's a lot of context you're missing out on. Probably best to sit this one out.

 

[JimmyHoffa]

+1

You need to master the rules before you should try breaking them. Nearly every one of Mantons fits have been home runs, can we say the same about WAYWRN or this thread?

What we have a lot of instead on SF now are young, strongly aspirational* guys who are looking for the easy, quick way to the top, who are looking to take short cuts.

Instead of internalising rules, understanding them and then dressing accordingly, their locus of control is external - what's on sale, what I find in the thrift shop, what I see on tumblr, what's hot at Pitti, what's trending on #menswear, what fellow idiot-savants are hot under the collar about (e.g. navy cordovan boots).

Of course when you know nothing everything can look good to you. Instead of concluding that the rules don't really matter, consider instead that it's because you know nothing.

It's a sad state of affairs.

* - photos are often snapshots of a lifestyle, with the clothing being merely an accessory to the implied prestige of said lifestyle. Why post a photo of an outfit that tells me nothing about the fit, and with such poor colour balance that I can't tell anything about the colours either? Who gives a **** that you're drinking a glass of whiskey at a bar? Am I meant to be impressed by the fact that you're paying 6x the cost to drink outside? You're on f*cking SF, not WhiskeyForum.

"You need to master the rules of clothing before you break them". Are you serious? Have you said that to anyone in real life?!

I had no idea that there is a global 'rule book to clothing'. I took Manton as a general guide to looking better. Not a black and white manifesto to men's clothing.

Us young guys aren't trying to 'get to the top, by taking shortcuts'. What the hell is the top? Top of Styleforum? Top of society?

Young men are interested in buying clothing that: has been made by someone that has committed their lives to making the highest quality clothing (and can make the highest quality clothing), obtaining the best fabrics, something that they think makes them look good, and their family, friends and associates like on them.

If you are looking any further than that, you are really looking too far.

Pitti and Tumblr are just channels of information. They are integral part of a more connected world. If more people found out about Pitti, the quality of manufacturing around the world, would increase. That is a good thing.

 

[JimmyHoffa]

there's a lot of context you're missing out on.

Wait, I thought Blahman was being sarcastic. Or does he really think FxH is a bit of twat?

 

[LonerMatt]

Matt, have you taken the time to read the whole thread? I have over a few months and can tell you that there's a lot of context you're missing out on. Probably best to sit this one out.

No, I haven't, and I'm sure you're right on both counts.

 

[DartagnanRed]

Manton and I do not agree on everything, but 95% of the time we get to the same conclusions differently. Sometimes he is facetious in his tone (you'd be a fool to take his faux imperiousness literally), but he is always worth listening carefully to. The forum was much more interesting and better dressed when his participation was appreciated.

Hi Foo,

You must have some sort of Manton post alerts system set up, impressive. I completely understand that Manton's tone in non serious, which is what I was trying to explain. I think it's easy to misinterpret some of his half serious rules/suggestions and take them as make-or-break style laws. I have thoroughly enjoyed a lot of what he posts (and indeed what you have posted), I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.





Quote:

"You need to master the rules before you should try breaking them". I half agree, though I'd probably say something along the lines of: "you need to understand what the rules are and why they exist before you disregard them, if at all." I obey most of the rules myself and would recommend them to others when asked. The difference is now I do it more subconciously, without fretting over deliberate choices. I was just trying to remind Nick DC that dressing should be fun, not wasted worrying about whether a white shirt is appropriate.
As for the rest of your post, I agree entirely. The #menswear brigade is what turned me off styleforum for a while.
"photos are often snapshots of a lifestyle, with the clothing being merely an accessory to the implied prestige of said lifestyle." Basically why I've never taken a fit pic, I'm too scared about coming across like this. I just like nice things, I don't want to be consumed by a lifestyle.
"Who gives a **** that you're drinking a glass of whiskey at a bar? Am I meant to be impressed by the fact that you're paying 6x the cost to drink outside?" Harsh, but you probably have the cost of Baxter's about right, it's a joke.

 

[jmills]

let's say I buy polish for about the same as the trees

If they're selling C&J branded shoe trees that's not going to happen. C&J's trees are about $75 AUD alone.

 

[streetminimal]

This heated discussion has got me in the mood.

Surely it's worth a try. They're a small business and if you ask nicely and they're not making a loss they can probably be a little flexible about it.

Surely it's worth a try...if he gets off his ass and goes to the store and has a chat with them. Man, seriously.

But apropos and LonerMatt do have points though; I find that SF members strongly bring along this groupthink mentality when it comes to giving advice/opinions which is why I think it's often better to use this place as a foundational tool to learn the '101' of dressing and then go off and do your own thing and experiment, not letting others dictate how you dress.

People get tangled up in reading threads and personal opinions here and then start digesting those things and go off and spend $5000 or whatever and a few weeks later think that they're automatically in the know about menswear. They confuse personal style and fashion.

 

[TehBunny]



Hi Foo,

You must have some sort of Manton post alerts system set up

Nice to know I'm not the only one thinking this

Also apro; the comments on Nick's whiskey was completely unnecessary...I defend whiskey with meh life...oh and Nick

Also thanks for the advice on the shoes I'll ask me anyways and try to get me for 550; if anyone's gotten a similar deal from dubmonk feel free to speak up.