Anyone works/worked for a start-up firm?

[austinite]

I've been working at a startup since I got out of school (3 years.) I'm sacrificing pretty heavily in terms of salary. Considering benefits (health insurance, 401k matching, vacation, etc) I'm only getting paid 50% what I could get in about one day of job hunting. That said, I still live comfortably and I strongly believe that my equity position will make it more than worth my while.

The experience has been awesome for me. I think I've learned more in 3 years here than I would have in 10 years in a big company job. I have a lot of real responsibility that I don't think I would have gotten elsewhere.

I disagree about wanting a VC funded startup. VC funding means that the VCs run the show. Our company has given up zero equity for funding and I think that is a blessing. The poster above that mentioned the CEO is absolutely correct. The first part of that equation is that you need a founder that understands his limitations. Our founder is an academic type, and while he is a great guy he is no master businessman and he doesn't pretend otherwise. He hired a fantastic CEO and let him run the company, and the second that happened is when we stopped treading water and started making big advances.

Oh yeah, the guy that said "don't work at a startup, you could end up in the unemployment line at any moment!!" needs to grow some balls... I understand people not being willing to make the financial sacrifice, particularly if you have children (which I don't), but I do not have any fear of losing my job whatsoever. There are plenty of jobs out there if you have skills to offer.

 

[wj4]



I've been working at a startup since I got out of school (3 years.) I'm sacrificing pretty heavily in terms of salary. Considering benefits (health insurance, 401k matching, vacation, etc) I'm only getting paid 50% what I could get in about one day of job hunting. That said, I still live comfortably and I strongly believe that my equity position will make it more than worth my while.

The experience has been awesome for me. I think I've learned more in 3 years here than I would have in 10 years in a big company job. I have a lot of real responsibility that I don't think I would have gotten elsewhere.

I disagree about wanting a VC funded startup. VC funding means that the VCs run the show. Our company has given up zero equity for funding and I think that is a blessing. The poster above that mentioned the CEO is absolutely correct. The first part of that equation is that you need a founder that understands his limitations. Our founder is an academic type, and while he is a great guy he is no master businessman and he doesn't pretend otherwise. He hired a fantastic CEO and let him run the company, and the second that happened is when we stopped treading water and started making big advances.

Oh yeah, the guy that said "don't work at a startup, you could end up in the unemployment line at any moment!!" needs to grow some balls... I understand people not being willing to make the financial sacrifice, particularly if you have children (which I don't), but I do not have any fear of losing my job whatsoever. There are plenty of jobs out there if you have skills to offer.

Thanks for your 2 cents. I would appreciate it though if we can prevent ourselves from attacking others. One of the biggest reasons I really enjoy SF is that a lot of members are established in their own respective field, and usually are welcome to chime in and give advices/suggestions.

I do agree with you that good jobs are out there for qualified individuals. Half of the folks trying to apply for jobs can't even fill out an application correctly.

 

[EMY]

Thanks austinite!

 

[austinite]



Thanks for your 2 cents. I would appreciate it though if we can prevent ourselves from attacking others. One of the biggest reasons I really enjoy SF is that a lot of members are established in their own respective field, and usually are welcome to chime in and give advices/suggestions.

I do agree with you that good jobs are out there for qualified individuals. Half of the folks trying to apply for jobs can't even fill out an application correctly.

You are right. Apologies for that comment. For me, the instability aspect was not too big of a drawback. Salary and work/life balance are sacrificed though.

 

[VinnyMac]

Quote:

You are right. Apologies for that comment. For me, the instability aspect was not too big of a drawback. Salary and work/life balance are sacrificed though.

....was going to verbally berate you, until I saw the last exchange

 

[amathew]

I'm also 27 and have been working at a non-vc funded tech start-up for the past two years as a statistician. Here are some of my thoughts.

1. In general, expect to be paid below market rate. This has huge consequences as you progress in your career so it's worth thinking about. For me,
in my two years, I haven't received a salary raise (no one has) even though the company is doing well, and this won't look good to future employers.
At the same time, don't be a slave to money and obsessed with amassing wealth. While lots of money will allow you to live comfortably, it's not going
to do you much good when you're dead and rotting in the ground. Just my opinion.

2. Just because a start up is VC funded shouldn't mean much to you. I agree with the poster who mentioned that a self funded vc is usually a better
option as they'll be more frugal and won't have beer pong tables throughout their office. The company I work for is funded by one of the founders,
who made a lot of money in acquisitions at his two previous ventures. Plus, if one of the founders has been involved as a founder at other successfull
start ups, that's usually a good sign.

3. Expect to wear many hats. Even though your position is x, you'll likely have to take on other responsibility from time to time that don't fit your position.


Overall, I'm glad I am having the experience of working at a start up. However, if I had a redo, I'd have accepted one of the other job offers I had (stats position
on obama campaign, biostats position at hospital, statistician at tufts). Why? because of the long hours, low pay, and pressure. For my position, what I do (building algorithms for auction systems) largely determines if the company does well. That is a lot of pressure and coupled with the pay + hours, makes me regret accepting the job at a start up. Being a young professional, it also stinks being in a department of one by myself.

 

[willny]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to make it seem VC funded start ups meant higher success rate. I meant VC funded start ups are willing to pay you more, and sometimes more than larger companies. Now the room to grow could be a little different between a start up and large company.

Working for a start up, staying there for the long run or just a year will look good on your resume. Start ups are typically very demanding.

 

[amathew]

Hey wisith, did you end up accepting the job opening at the start up?

I recently (on thursday) interviewed at a start up in San Francisco and may consider leaving my current employer even though it's taking off.

 

[GreenFrog]

Bumping this.

I'm seriously looking into a startup as my next job. I'm being very thoughtful on joining a company that builds a product / provides a service that I care about and / or believe in. This limits the possibilities quite significantly for me.

Does anyone have any experience getting a higher-level position at a startup compared to your past work experience? I've got 2.5 years of consulting experience under my belt and the postings I've seen so far (angel.co) are either extremely entry level, firmly mid-level with managerial responsibilities, or C-suite types.

I believe I could execute well on the mid-level positions, despite my lack of managerial experience.

I'm not looking to join a startup for equity or to get rich; it's 99.9% the experience that I'm looking for. Is this a mistake?

 

[Reggs]

I started my career as an analyst at a ~$40M/yr company. My job duties were well defined and the politics were non existent. When I started to look for a new job, I got far in the interview process with a large well established company where I would have filled a very specific marketing position. I did not get the job. The next job after that, and my current job have been with startups. In the first, I was quickly promoted because my boss left the company. I became a marketing manager and hired people under me. It was high stress and long hours. Everything was sink or swim and the politics made HBO shows look like child's play. Despite your skills, or how much you contribute, the politics matter a lot in start ups. At my current job I managed to stay out of it for the most part by making my department insular and secretive. There is stress, but it's very fun and exciting. I love having my own fiefdom and seeing my choices having a significant impact on the company. I've also gotten so much more experience than I would of had at a larger company. I feel that I have gained a level of confidence that I would not have been able to have in any other environment. I've launched very expensive campaigns that my credibility hinged on with everyone watching and have done well. I have been in shark tank meetings that were nothing short of political bloodbaths and talked circles around men 15-20 years my senior and walked away unhurt and making them look like idiots. You just don't get action like that starting your career at larger companies.

Had I gotten the job for the larger company earlier in my career, and worked a very specific position, I would be able to clam so much less on my resume, and might not have any management experience. I would have been paid more though. Still, my career in startups has been a lot of fun and it keeps me excited about my work. I enjoy going to work, and when I get home I often read about my line of work. I have also been more tired when I go home and even on the weekends. I spend most of my free time at home reading and cooking and playing videogames. I have not gone to the gym as much. On the bright side, going out less has also meant that I spend a lot less money. My expenses have gone down significantly. Managing people is very easy and comfortable to me, and since I've started to apply for jobs at larger companies in the past few weeks I find that I qualify for a lot of diverse marketing jobs simply because I have done so much during my time at startups.

It's been fun, but now I'm looking to work at a larger company again. I'm married now and will likely have a child in the next 5 years or so. I need to make more money. I recommend working at a start-up to any young man just out of college, or anyone who doesn't have anyone depending on them to provide.

 

[GreenFrog]



...

Great post, thank you for sharing your experiences.

How many employees were at each of the start-ups you've worked at? So far, I'm looking to get into a Product Manager role at 'start-ups' that have already received seed funding from VCs and are growing rapidly. I'm not too keen on joining a boot-strap start-up that only has a handful of employees, though I bet those are the ones that give you the most experience.

Also, how many years have you spent working at start-ups? If I had to guess, it looks like you've been at each for maybe 2-3 years, so I'm assuming you're in your late 20s?

And finally, would you ever consider starting your own company? Or are you looking to take a more conservative approach to your career and work at a bigger corporation with a stable gig over the long haul?

Edit: I also recall your identifying yourself as an introvert -- does that have any impact on how you manage people? I identify as an introvert as well, and believe I am more perceptive and understanding of peoples' behavior and emotions as a result, which I believe would translate into good managerial skills, at least somewhat. Curious to hear about your experiences with managing people.

 

[Reggs]



Great post, thank you for sharing your experiences.

How many employees were at each of the start-ups you've worked at? So far, I'm looking to get into a Product Manager role at 'start-ups' that have already received seed funding from VCs and are growing rapidly. I'm not too keen on joining a boot-strap start-up that only has a handful of employees, though I bet those are the ones that give you the most experience.

Also, how many years have you spent working at start-ups? If I had to guess, it looks like you've been at each for maybe 2-3 years, so I'm assuming you're in your late 20s?

And finally, would you ever consider starting your own company? Or are you looking to take a more conservative approach to your career and work at a bigger corporation with a stable gig over the long haul?

Edit: I also recall your identifying yourself as an introvert -- does that have any impact on how you manage people? I identify as an introvert as well, and believe I am more perceptive and understanding of peoples' behavior and emotions as a result, which I believe would translate into good managerial skills, at least somewhat. Curious to hear about your experiences with managing people.

I think about starting my own company every day. I was seriously considering starting a business on the side and slowly transitioning away from my current job. I think now that I will go the traditional rout and find a job at a larger company, but if I ever get laid off in the future, I will start my own company immediately, but also look for the job concurrently. It's just very high risk and I have a wife to provide for and a future baby to save for. I need some stability only because of these things, otherwise I probably would have started my own company by now. This could go either way for me. I think not starting my own company might very well be one of my biggest regrets in life, but if I do, it might be one of my biggest mistakes.

The first company was a little over a year, and the current is approaching a year. The longest stint I've ever been at a post grad job was as an analyst for a larger company. The first company was in a rapidly growing market. We had 17 employees, two of which were part time. We also had a ton of near pure commission salesmen and general contractors but I would not count them. The current company has 10 US employees and 30 some overseas employees. This company is stable. I could stay here for a long time, but it will never grow despite my best efforts because the overseas portion is horribly inept and the CEO will never get rid of them because they are "his people."

I am an introvert. I like to hire happy people who are independent. I never hire anyone I don't think I couldn't trust to keep a secret. I think I'm better at understanding people's emotions and behavior as well. I always pick up on the fake smiles in interviews and insincere complements. I also think that because I tend to be very discriminating with people that I can sense what people think of me. There is a lot to it, but I try to take stress away from those who work for me and defend them to others but also expect the best from them. My Myers-Briggs is INTJ: http://www.16personalities.com/intjs-at-work I find that these profiles are usually accurate. The CEO has an analytical side to him as well, and is also introverted, so we work well together even though most can't navigate him. I can push my agendas and they almost always go through. And since my department is so secretive and insular, it makes us teflon to most politics.

 

[GreenFrog]



I think about starting my own company every day. I was seriously considering starting a business on the side and slowly transitioning away from my current job. I think now that I will go the traditional rout and find a job at a larger company, but if I ever get laid off in the future, I will start my own company immediately, but also look for the job concurrently. It's just very high risk and I have a wife to provide for and a future baby to save for. I need some stability only because of these things, otherwise I probably would have started my own company by now. This could go either way for me. I think not starting my own company might very well be one of my biggest regrets in life, but if I do, it might be one of my biggest mistakes.

The first company was a little over a year, and the current is approaching a year. The longest stint I've ever been at a post grad job was as an analyst for a larger company. The first company was in a rapidly growing market. We had 17 employees, two of which were part time. We also had a ton of near pure commission salesmen and general contractors but I would not count them. The current company has 10 US employees and 30 some overseas employees. This company is stable. I could stay here for a long time, but it will never grow despite my best efforts because the overseas portion is horribly inept and the CEO will never get rid of them because they are "his people."

I am an introvert. I like to hire happy people who are independent. I never hire anyone I don't think I couldn't trust to keep a secret. I think I'm better at understanding people's emotions and behavior as well. I always pick up on the fake smiles in interviews and insincere complements. I also think that because I tend to be very discriminating with people that I can sense what people think of me. There is a lot to it, but I try to take stress away from those who work for me and defend them to others but also expect the best from them. My Myers-Briggs is INTJ: http://www.16personalities.com/intjs-at-work I find that these profiles are usually accurate. The CEO has an analytical side to him as well, and is also introverted, so we work well together even though most can't navigate him. I can push my agendas and they almost always go through. And since my department is so secretive and insular, it makes us teflon to most politics.

Again, thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

Re: starting your own company, it sounds like you've had some great experiences at smaller firms, which is where I feel you learn most on how a company operates and develops. In my mind, the difference between a 5 - 10 person company vs a 25 - 50 person company is huge, but I could be wrong.

That all being said, would you say you'd feel much more comfortable starting your own company now that you've had all these experiences?

And, apologies for all the questions, but could you please elaborate more on how your colleagues weren't so successful at navigating the waters with your CEO, versus yourself? Maybe it's hard to articulate in words from your perspective, but how were you able to push your agendas through him so much more easily? Was it the way in which you communicated?

Last question I have -- as a manager, how do you inspire your direct reports to do good work? I'm assuming you're not the micro-managing type, but do you have any tips / tricks, like being proactive in giving out praise and things of that nature?

 

[Reggs]

Yes, I'm much more comfortable with the idea of starting a business now. In a small company I think I've learned the full impact of employment decisions, and knowing what choices I can move away from, how quickly I can move away from them, and which choices will be cemented for a long time. In general, a lot of problems associated with strategy and personnel are highlighted in small business. I think seeing a plan work out in such an environment is a very good way to stress test your ideas and performance. You are also more likely to work with a strict budget. At the first startup I had a $84K/mo budget for my department, a decent sized budget, but the CEO was fanatical about costs. He would come down on $50-$100 differences. I found myself making 2-3 phone calls a week to raise hell about costs from the different companies I was working with. It was uncomfortable for me, but I saved my company a ton of money and learned very well how to negotiate. It also helped develop interpersonal skills. I've always liked to be polite and get along with everyone, but I was just forced to proactively cause confrontation frequently for the sake of increasing ROI. I've learned a lot.

Dealing with my current CEO took a while to learn. He is a dreamer who gets very excited by exciting ideas. That said, if you are logical, that trumps all. He is also an introvert. I am too, but I do not isolate myself as much as he does. Other departments will appeal to his emotions, and it works for a time, but if I provide a counter argument with numbers or logic, I crush it. Sometimes it's not always in my interest. He will be happy about an idea, and if I crush it, he sees the truth and will back me, but I'm the asshole who walked in the room and made him unhappy about his idea and ensure my my colleague's brilliant idea was not pushed through. That said, the reverse also happens. I can use analysis to get him excited about my ideas and then see them approved and come to fruition. After a few months, I've found I can present these with little resistance just based on my track record. My CEO is also indecisive and will often have his opinion changed. If I want to push anything through, I think of the most appealing way to present my own idea, then think of what my colleagues will say, and inoculate him to their ideas or concerns of mine. If I know it's going to be a point of conflict, I will find an excuse to talk to him after I know some colleague has talked to him, then segway into what the colleague might have told him and shoot it down. It took me a while to learn all this about my CEO, and after I did, it took a while for me to use it well enough to the point where colleagues rarely bring up anything conflicting with what I push for. I'm in a good political position, but who knows how I might preform with a CEO in another company?

I make sure those in my department are seen as golden to everyone. It's the department above all. The public perception must be that everyone in the department is flawless. If anyone in my department gets criticized, I defend them. That said, I discipline in private, in a consultative way unless it's really bad and that's when I simply tell them their blunt mistakes. I want them to have their own ideas and take ownership for them so that there is a bit of their ego in everything they do. If I give them work that I know they will really hate, I participate in it to some degree, even if it's work I hate. I always say please and thank you, just as my mother taught me. I work late a lot, so when they leave I thank them for all the help for the day. When I got the job, I was offered a desk in the "executive" part of the office where few people, and none of my team would ever be. Despite being an introvert, I turned it down knowing I would isolate myself if given the chance. I work with my team around me and I would not have it any other way. I've never asserted myself in an authoritative way to anyone in my department, but would do so as a last resort. I also want them to be honest about their career. If they have a reasonable problem, I want to help fix it. If I sense they want to leave, I confront them about it, make sure there are no worries, and write them a recommendation letter if I can write one honestly, and keep their secret before they have secured their next job. This way they work for me to their best until they do leave, and I get a good contact for the future. Social interaction is exhausting, hence I go home after work and don't go out. I just cook, read about my profession, and play videogames. That's how I preform at my best. I'm happy.

 

[GreenFrog]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. It's really interesting to hear your perspective and thought process as I can really relate to how you think about things. I also really respect the way you work with your reports in your department. It sounds like you're a pretty cool boss.

Three more follow-up questions:

1. Amongst the various CEOs you worked for, have you seen a correlation between their working styles / personalities and the overall success of the firm?

2. How do you deal with frustration / anger that arises on the moment when you're reacting to something, whether it be a work product that you're reviewing or a heated conversation with a peer? I guess what I'm trying to get at, is, I'm really trying to learn how to self-regulate and not let my emotions get in the way of how I communicate with others while dealing with conflict and I'm wondering if you do the same, and if so, how you successfully suppress negative emotions on-the-fly.

3. Do you mind telling me what department you work in? I vaguely recall your saying you work in Marketing in some post a long time ago, but just wanted to make sure. Do you ever dabble with Product Management by any chance?

Thanks again!