The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[culverwood]

Cartier Louis Cartier Tank XL 40.40mm x 34.92mm x 5.1mm
Grand Reverso Ultra Thin 46.8mm x 27.4mm x 7.3mm

As Dino has said your chances of finding one like his are thin and a guilloche dial is available on the GRUT if that matters.

As has been said many times try them on and see which suits you.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]



Obviously not Dino, but even as a Reverso fan I admit they aren't for every wrist, mine included unfortunately. I have found them to be too long lug to lug and flat for my wrist. I am aware they have multiple sizes/styles and there's a few I haven't been able to try on that could work. The 'standard' size Reverso, if you've never seen one in person, is actually pretty big IMO.

This Cartier is IMO much more elegant... and that guilloche dial is absolutely insane. The thin case, simple/classic Cartier face w/roman numerals, and that crown are a home run for me.

The Reverso is an icon, and I feel like I might get flamed for this statement, but I'll go ahead anyways: The Reverso is not a great dress watch. Due to its carriage, it sits high on the wrist rather than hugging it. The Cartier Tank is better if you're looking for a pure dress watch. The Reverso does look great with business casual dress, however.

 

[Dino944]

Wonderful watch, just out of curiosity why would you pick this over JLC reverse (in the market for JLC MUT moon for now, so more like just curious)

I actually like the Reverso, and my choosing this watch is not a slight to the JLC Reverso. However, this simply was too special of a piece to pass up at the time (it was actually the last new one in the North American Market when I bought it). While the Reverso is cool, and has interesting history behind the design, for me the Tank Louis Cartier is IMHO the most classic and elegant of rectangular watches. Its history originates back in 1917 and it was the choice many famous people long before there was such a thing as brand ambassadors (who today are paid to wear products and given watches). I've seen nice rectangular pieces from big names such as PP, ALS, AP, VC, JLC etc...but the design of the Cartier Tank is so pure and clean. It doesn't have any unnecessary embellishments or lines on the case or lugs...its simplicity is what adds to its beauty. That simplicity also makes it a piece that is perfectly at home with a suit or with jeans and a golf shirt. In addition, the movement is truly special. Probably 90% of rectangular and square watches use small round movements because its cost effective for a company just to grab a small round movement from a round mid-sized watch and put it into a square or rectangular case. This Piaget designed movement is something you won't see in other watches and the design is really beautiful. I don't think I've actually seen the movement in a Piaget watch. So it adds diversity of movements to my collection. JLC's manual pieces often use specially shaped movements also, and since they sometimes sell them to Cartier or VC, therefore I can find them in other watches. For instance I already have a JLC Reverso movement as a base movement for my square VC. See the photos below.

I also find dial, the Roman numerals (with the secret Cartier signature) and the guiolloche perfectly balanced and elegant. There simply isn't anything I could have asked them to do differently to make it a more beautiful piece. With JLC, I sometimes struggle to find a dial and set of hands that I really like. I find the font for the numbers on most of the rose gold Reversos a bit too plain...and I didn't really want a Reverso in WG (although I preferred the font for its numbers) I almost bought one of the Reverso pieces below, but in the end I went with a limited edition VC scroll down.

I would like to add a JLC Reverso at some point, but it would have to be the right piece. As I mentioned in my original post about my Tank XL, rectangular and square watches do wear larger and differently than round watches. Some JLCs fit me better than others. At the time I was looking for a rectangular piece, JLC had largely focused on marketing and selling their XGT cased Reversos. While I liked some of the functions they used, I found the cases and lugs too chunky and IMHO the newer larger cases lost much of the elegance and versatility, that made the GT sized cases really nice. The classic Reverso watches were too small for me to consider, and the 1931 Tribute pieces had not yet been released.

I like the 1931 Tribute pieces, and its a great size, but its not a piece I would choose instead of my CPCP Tank XL....its a piece I would choose in addition to it.

Finally while I am someone who buys what I like, and I try not to focus on resale value, Cartier, even if only because it is a more recognized name, is an easier watch to sell, trade, or recoup funds for if I ever sold it. I have had unsolicited offers for it. A friend with a limited edition JLC in platinum couldn't find any place that would even make him an offer on it. They said their customers just aren't into used JLC, they prefer PP, AP, VC, ALS, Cartier and Rolex...so they won't buy anything from other brands. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy something from a brand outside of those that were mentioned, but I'd be more hesitant to buy a pricey one in gold or platinum ...as one could really take a bath on those.

Below my VC with JLC Reverso movement. Anyone with a time only Reverso will recognize that movement.

In closing I will say that I weigh everything on a case by case basis when shopping for watches. I wouldn't choose all Cartier pieces over a JLC. There are definitely some Reversos I'd choose over Cartiers. So it always depends on what is available at the time I am shopping. I hope this helps. Cheers!

 

[soender]

nm

 

[Dino944]

The Reverso is an icon, and I feel like I might get flamed for this statement, but I'll go ahead anyways: The Reverso is not a great dress watch. Due to its carriage, it sits high on the wrist rather than hugging it. The Cartier Tank is better if you're looking for a pure dress watch. The Reverso does look great with business casual dress, however.

Even though the Reverso wasn't designed to be a dress watch, it has evolved into a watch that in certain sizes can be worn as one. In addition, considering some of the watches people wear with suits, IMHO as long as the person isn't wearing one of the super chunky Reverso cases (8 day power Reserve model), I think Reversos can work nicely as a dress watch.

The carriage of the Reverso is just a hit or miss in terms of fit for many people. Years ago a friend of mine purchased the GT sized rose gold manual wind Sun Moon Reverso that is pictured above, and he hated how it sat on his wrist so he sold it. Then within the last year or two he really liked the Reveso Rouge and bought that, and he said its a far better fit on his wrist.

I will say that while I originally felt the Tank is purely a dress watch, I do like wearing mine with jeans. Not being an ultra-thin I find it is still thick enough to have enough presence to easily wear with casual clothing. While some other dress watches often seem a bit too dainty to wear with casual wear.

 

[Starter]



 With Rolex...the answer is ALWAYS steel. 





Nope, sorry. Always. 



I mean it.

Actually, that red sub was one of the few models for which it was possible to buy an OEM nylon strap from Rolex... The straps haven't been available for years, but most serious collectors will at least source a similar strap for that particular watch, whether or not they choose to mount it. Very model / period correct, in any event.

 

[apropos]

In my humble opinion, the Reverso line suffers from a bit of an identity crisis.

There are simple time only ones, large chunky "sporty" ones, large complicated ones, and a couple of variations of the slim to slimmer cases. The styling runs the gamut from elegant to staid to futuristic. And then there are quartz movement bearing ones too. Some have solid casebacks, others have display casebacks, and still others have dual faces. It makes it difficult in my opinion for someone new to Reversos to make sense of everything - and it dilutes the impact for collectors as there are just too many damned variations.

I think of all the Reversos there are basically only 2 or 3 I really find interesting - the 60eme (60th anniversary) is a beautiful watch in (IMO) the best proportioned GT case, the enamel dialled RG with solid caseback in the GT format, and the Rouge (which I own) which while not in a GT case has a dial which makes up for it...

 

[clee1982]

Thanks for the great opinions on reverso, bring out a lot thing I haven't thought about before

 

[BLAUGRANA]

For me the Reverso, like some other watches, can be dressed up or dressed down. It depends on a number of factors though. First and foremost I think you have to consider the case and the dial. Then once you've found one that can go both ways, you have to consider the strap. The Reverso Rouge, which has been brought up already, is for me a great example of this. Put it on a Casa Fagliano strap and I think you dress it down. Put it on a black alligator strap though and I think you can definitely dress it up considerably. For me, my Reverso 1931 with the syringe hands is more difficult to dress up. The color of the dial and the shape of the hands definitely lend to this. Even if I were to take it off the Casa Fagliano strap and put it on the black alligator strap it isn't as dressed up for me as the Reverso Rouge would be if you did the same. I'm fine with that because I view it as a casual piece in that iteration and I rarely have to dress up anyway so it suits me just fine. The one thing about the Reverso Rouge that to a small degree dresses it down are the sword hands, but I think that's being somewhat picky.

The Reverso as some have noted can be a bit of a contradiction and a difficult watch to peg. You have so many iterations, case sizes and dials which all factor into that. Still what I find interesting is that as I understand it the Reverso is originally a "sport" watch. Still as the Hodinkee article on Edward the VIII demonstrates, the Reverso was apparently a watch that some European royals took to. So it's interesting to me that you have that sort of contradiction if you will coupled with the fact that you have some sporty Reversos as well as some dressier versions.

Recently I think JLC has made some great Reversos. They did multiple versions of the 1931 Reverso that I liked, albeit some with just different colored dials. Still some of the latest Reversos, such as the new Tribute Duo and Tribute Calendar, are also really nice looking pieces (even though I don't like the "duo" as I prefer the stainless steel back side). I even like some of the Reversos they make for women, though in some cases they shouldn't have used quartz movements in my opinion.

One final thought is that the size of the Reverso can vary, but it can wear larger than you might think. When I got my 1931 Reverso I thought it was small, but it was my first ever "luxury" watch and I was used to wearing quartz divers that were 43mm or so. Having worn it for a while now and having tried on other luxury watches, it doesn't feel small at all to me. It doesn't feel too large either though on my 7" wrist. Also, I love how it sits on my wrist. My wrist is pretty flat in my opinion so maybe that helps, but it fit's really well and looks great from a side profile.

At the end of the day if you get the right Reverso you'll get a great watch. I also would love to own a Cartier Tank as well though. Both watches have a lot of merit and depending on your means and your take on how many watches one might need, I could definitely see owning both if you had a large enough collection.

 

[Journeyman]

I think of all the Reversos there are basically only 2 or 3 I really find interesting - the 60eme (60th anniversary) is a beautiful watch in (IMO) the best proportioned GT case, the enamel dialled RG with solid caseback in the GT format, and the Rouge (which I own) which while not in a GT case has a dial which makes up for it...

This is an absolutely gorgeous version of the Reverso, one of most attractive that I've seen.

 

[bengal-stripe]



One final thought is that the size of the Reverso can vary, but it can wear larger than you might think.

That's my Reverso "Art Deco" from the mid-late 90s which I bought second-hand
at auction some ten years ago (the picture is the one from the catalogue).
The watch is the 'classic' size (23 mm wide) and by modern standards tiny
(I have been asked whether this was a ladies watch).

The unfashionable size is probably the reason why I got the watch quite cheaply.

 

[Keith T]

^^^I really like the dial on that one, bengal-stripe. Quite handsome!^^^


My personal experience with the Reverso is that I had wanted one to employ pretty much exclusively as a dress watch. Most of us are of course familiar with the origins of the design-- but let's just say that I will probably never play a single chukker in my lifetime LOL. However, for what I was searching for (precious metal / tasteful size / iconic brand)-- it really "ticked off all the boxes", as they say.

So I've kept it on the OEM black croc, which of course keeps it at the formal end of the scale, in terms of strap choices. And I think it's an absolute smash with french cuffs, silk knots, and one of my nicer suits. Case is only 7.2 mm thick. The dial does have a subtle pattern, but at the end of the day, it's really a dead simple two-hander. No date, no seconds. And purely mechanical (same movement as dino's VC shown above).

Could it be worn more casually, more often? I believe it could. But I've got several other pieces that would arguably be far better choices, depending on my attire and the occasion. And since the Reverso is often discussed alongside and compared with the Cartier Tank, I will agree with others who have mentioned that they honestly admire both. In other words, I'm absolutely NOT ruling out future ownership of a Tank someday

And lastly, I should also add here that I've done a rather poor job of getting any additional pics of the GRUT that would better represent what I consider its true elegance, but I've always just been a phone camera guy anyway. So here's a pic that I ripped from Tourneau's website. They're at least good for that (ha ha!):

 

[Dino944]

In my humble opinion, the Reverso line suffers from a bit of an identity crisis.

There are simple time only ones, large chunky "sporty" ones, large complicated ones, and a couple of variations of the slim to slimmer cases. The styling runs the gamut from elegant to staid to futuristic. And then there are quartz movement bearing ones too. Some have solid casebacks, others have display casebacks, and still others have dual faces. It makes it difficult in my opinion for someone new to Reversos to make sense of everything - and it dilutes the impact for collectors as there are just too many damned variations.

I think JLC's marketing team went a bit crazy in making the JLC become a "Jack of all trades." Which maybe waters down the importance or value of the Reverso in the JLC collection. For me the larger XGT cased watches became far too thick and the lugs were far too chunky (bordering on unattractive). The enlarged height and lugs just killed the design for me and made it less wearable. While I understood that those models were intended to be very sporty/casual, and appeal to people who by the early 2000s wanted much larger watches...I just didn't care for or want any of those models. The Squadra and other automatic models did absolutely nothing for me.

If I eventually add a Reverso to my collection it would have to be something clean and elegant something like the GT cased watches or the 1931 Tribute pieces. Those are pieces that to me embody what a Reverso should be and are models I could see myself wearing often.

 

[BLAUGRANA]

This is an absolutely gorgeous version of the Reverso, one of most attractive that I've seen.

Yes, that's definitely one of the nicer Reversos. Not a fan of the price though.

That's my Reverso "Art Deco" from the mid-late 90s which I bought second-hand
at auction some ten years ago (the picture is the one from the catalogue).
The watch is the 'classic' size (23 mm wide) and by modern standards tiny
(I have been asked whether this was a ladies watch).

The unfashionable size is probably the reason why I got the watch quite cheaply.

But how high is the watch? I'm guessing around 38mm? I'd have to get it on the wrist, but I'm guessing it looks just fine. "Modern standards" don't apply to everyone and I would think that most watch enthusiasts would still appreciate the size. Either way, for me that size would be fine, especially if you have a smaller/smallish wrist. More than anything though, I think it's the other details of the watch that make it look either masculine or feminine in this case and for me that doesn't look a very feminine watch at all.

And lastly, I should also add here that I've done a rather poor job of getting any additional pics of the GRUT that would better represent what I consider its true elegance, but I've always just been a phone camera guy anyway. So here's a pic that I ripped from Tourneau's website. They're at least good for that (ha ha!):

That's another really nice Reverso and it seems to be the more "standard" version if you will. That's why I was saying while there are enough Reversos that have been done over the years to ignore, there are plenty out there right now that are worth buying. Also, I think on a brown alligator strap it'd also be dressy, but you can also dress it down with that dial. Great choice!

 

[BLAUGRANA]

Thanks Blau. It's funny, this 36mm watch wears more like my 38.5mm Aqua Terra. Certainly looks and feels bigger than my old 36mm Aqua Terra from a year or two back. Not really sure why that is.

This BB36 has the shield logo on the dial but the rose on the crown, so you get the best of both worlds there.

Interesting about how it wears. I think that's a good thing considering it for me still has a diver look despite the lack of a bezel. Perhaps a maxi dial due to the hands?

I would still definitely prefer the rose logo on the dial, but that's a great point about the crown. Didn't know that about the BB36 and I think those Tudor crowns with the rose look great.

Tudor just has to get moving on that 36mm Ranger now!