The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

[Despos]

Point to point is taken by measuring across the top/upper area on the back from the seam where the sleeve is sewn to the jacket across to the same point on the other side. Some measure straight across from side to side and some tailors measure from the seam with the tape angled a bit upwards to where the under collar meets the center back seam and then across to the other seam where the sleeve meets the jacket.

This is used to control the width across the shoulder. I don't use this as much as a top shoulder measure. Measuring along the shoulder seam from the sleeve seam to the point the shoulder seam meets the under collar.

There is also a half back measure taken from where the point of the back seam on the sleeve meets the jacket, straight across to the center back seam.

This is how/where the measurements are taken for the upper back/shoulders of the jacket. Important to know how and where the maker takes these measurements so you are both on the same page. Variations in measuring techniques will render different results

 

[OTCtailor]

Decent MTM could/should look like this out of the box. Is it perfect? No. There are small adjustments that can be made to his profile to make the next garments better but this is right from the factory with no alterations. This guy has a 50" barrel chest and obvious portly build. It must be accounted for correctly along with being measured correctly. When the seller has synergy with the maker and knows how the maker is translating the measures, Mtm can and does work very well.

 

[TweedyProf]

Tailors

A question on engineering pants especially the back. As you know, many RTW trousers when worn give a unclean line in the back due to bunching beneath the seat. I understand that sometimes this is due to the back rise being to long, but is there a way to tell from the front rise/back rise measurement how well a pair of pants will fit in the back. E.g. if it matches a pair of well fitting pants?

I suspect that engineering a good fit is more complicated than front/back rise measurements. Is it?

 

[Despos]

^
Yes, it isn't as simple as a measurement. It is about the angle of the seat and side/outseam of the back part as well as the height of the back part in relation to the front panels. Measurements wouldn't tell the whole story with any certainty. One visual aid is to look at the center back seam on a trouser. The more parallel the seam is to the vertical grain line of the cloth the straighter the back part is cut which will correspond to determining the angle the back part is cut. This is a tailors explanation and not sure if it helps your understanding.

 

[TweedyProf]

^
Yes, it isn't as simple as a measurement. It is about the angle of the seat and side/outseam of the back part as well as the height of the back part in relation to the front panels. Measurements wouldn't tell the whole story with any certainty. One visual aid is to look at the center back seam on a trouser. The more parallel the seam is to the vertical grain line of the cloth the straighter the back part is cut which will correspond to determining the angle the back part is cut. This is a tailors explanation and not sure if it helps your understanding.

Despos, thanks for your insight and instruction.

I'm gleaning (I think) something from this.

Can I ask at least one more question. I'm sure you see many trousers in the wild with this problem. Is there a common problem that leads to this?

E.g. the angle typically of the back center seam being cut too aggresively relative to the side/outseam? Let's measure the angle of the center back seam relative to "vertical" from where the back center seam starts at the waist band (or correct my axis as needed). This is a line roughly perpendicular to the ground. So, I'm thinking a back center seam with a larger angle measured from that vertical, back towards the waist (sweeping upwards). Too big of an angle relative to outseam might lead to bunching whereas if the angle is less aggressive, then the fabric has more room to contribute to a cleaner line in the back. If you pull up on the waistband, then the angle of the center seam is forced to a slightly less aggressive angel though now, the seam is riding higher too.

Does that make sense? Is it completely wrong? Please correct my use of the technical vocabulary. I really would like to learn.

The big lesson, not surprisingly, is that nothing is a substitute for actually trying something on...alas.

 

[OTCtailor]



Despos, thanks for your insight and instruction.

I'm gleaning (I think) something from this.

Can I ask at least one more question. I'm sure you see many trousers in the wild with this problem. Is there a common problem that leads to this?

E.g. the angle typically of the back center seam being cut too aggresively relative to the side/outseam? Let's measure the angle of the center back seam relative to "vertical" from where the back center seam starts at the waist band (or correct my axis as needed). This is a line roughly perpendicular to the ground. So, I'm thinking a back center seam with a larger angle measured from that vertical, back towards the waist (sweeping upwards). Too big of an angle relative to outseam might lead to bunching whereas if the angle is less aggressive, then the fabric has more room to contribute to a cleaner line in the back. If you pull up on the waistband, then the angle of the center seam is forced to a slightly less aggressive angel though now, the seam is riding higher too.

Does that make sense? Is it completely wrong? Please correct my use of the technical vocabulary. I really would like to learn.

The big lesson, not surprisingly, is that nothing is a substitute for actually trying something on...alas.

Chris can answer in a likely more accurate way, but the challenge is explaining in a way that a non tailor can understand. To be frank, many guys are afflicted with forward hips and flat seat or a combo of the two. In a nutshell, a guy built like that simply needs less fabric in the back and more in the front. Many rtw trousers are going to be cut with at least some degree of seat angle and back rise to be pretty much right in the middle of super angled and full cut and the opposite of more straight.
To simplify this, if you put a trouser with a more angled seat on a guy with a more flat/straight seat, the fabric is forced to go straight. There will be excess fabric and that excess fabric then falls down below the seat. Contrary wise, a straighter seat trouser on a guy with a more prominent or angled seat will not have enough length to get over the seat on his body. You will likely see quite a bit of tightness underneath the seat and the waist will gape at the back. The trouser will probably also drag heavily from the knee to the crotch. In order to create a greater seat angle, you must have extra rise and rear fork quantity at the center back seam and back inseam. It's the opposite for a straighter seat angle. Less rise and sometimes less fork quantity. These guides aren't hard lines as each situation can be different.
I see these things mostly from an alterations and Mtm perspective as that is the bulk of work that I do. Chris can def get more technical than that and maybe even correct some of my thinking.

 

[TweedyProf]

This is where diagrams etc. would help. Is there a book out there that explains some of this? I'm happy to have something interesting to read.

 

[OTCtailor]

You can register and search on the cutter and tailor forum. Try to dig thru what would be ultra technical stuff to you. Diagrams for this type of thing are very tough to translate it for the lay person.
Also, search SF for 'on pants'. There's a pretty in depth article there. In fact, that article and personal experimentation are essentially how I learned to fix the issue both in alterations and in mtm. Still even with my pretty accurate mtm producer I am finding myself adjusting seat curves. Almost never rise issues because I can see when the rise needs to br adjusted in front or back. There is the occasional extreme forward hips/flat client every now and again that requires me taking the back of the trouser apart to lower the rise, straighten the seat angle, take the back part of the hips in, and release the stride/back fork/back part of inseam. Fun times.

 

[hentaisan]

Hi guys,

Can this be saved?

I know the back is too tight but I think that can be let out (at the back seam?)

The biggest concern for me is the collar gap from being too low (looks like it's being pulled down at the back seam).

Also, shoulder divots and the chest doesn't seem to sit flush.

Cheers

 

[oscool27]

Hello everyone, I am 18 years old and starting college so I went out to get a suit that I can wear to weddings, grad parties, and other similar occasions. I found this navy peak lapel 3-piece for $70 at my local Express. This is my first suit that I have bought so I would like to know what I can do to improve the fit. I also don't want to spend more than $80-$100 on alterations. Your Advice would be greatly appreciated.

My apologies for the image quality.

Thank you

 

[jermyzy]

Hi guys, wonder if I can get your opinion. Bought a Banana Republic blazer on sale, would like to know if it's possible to have it tailored to have it fit better (willing to spend up to $100) or am I better off just returning it. This is for casual use only, so it doesn't have to be a perfect fit. For more formal occasions, I'm getting a custom sports coat being made. From what I've gathered from other feedback, sleeves need to be shortened, jacket needs to be shortened, and possibly arm sleeves need to be made thinner/tapered? Is it hard to have the arm sleeves made thinner?

 

[ter1413]

Put on a proper shirt. Retake pictures.

 

[Arion]

Hi there. I just received my first order from Luxire. Getting well fitting garments off the rack is pretty much impossible, and even with MtM it is quite hard for me. I have slightly inward pointing knees, my right hip seems to be a bit more prominent and higher, and the left side of my chest is a lot more prominent than my right chest. (pectus excavatum). That being said: the fit is pretty good for a first attempt. Before I place another order, I would love to know if you tailors have any advice regarding fixes for the issues that are visible in the pictures of the shirt and pants below.

Thanks a lot in advance. I would really appreciate any advice you can give me.

 

[Jeff Nguyen]

I just bought a SuitSupply London Cut in 34R. I sized down from my normal size of 36R, but I fear the length may now be too short. Thanks for the feedback!
.

 

[fishtacologin]

This might be a little different from the usual posts -- but I would really appreciate some feedback on the fit of a piece of outerwear that is styled like a blazer. I originally had one in size S, but exchanged for a size XS because the S was far too long / wide through the arms and body. Now I'm worried that the shoulders on the XS are too small.

Pictures of the XS:

Close up of the shoulders:

Older pictures of the S:

If the XS is too small, how -- if it is possible -- could I tailor the S to fit better? The jacket is a Barbour Commander.