The Kaffiyeh

[DeadDJ]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

for the most part, wearing a kaffeya puts you in the campe that supports terror - you have to decide if you are comfortable with that.
That's correct in the same way that wearing a Star of David means you support the brutal oppression of a populace. I'd like to address this without getting too far off the stylin' track, but your statement is pretty ridiculously far off.

1) It's a huge stretch to assume that because one part of the populace wears something the rest of the populace supports their reasons for wearing it - though I'm aware of PLO assertions and the current Palestinian government. It is especially true when a militant faction claims a basic form of clothing. Judaism is inseparable from Israel, and the Star is a common symbol. By your reasoning, all of Israel and anyone in the US wearing one supports all actions taken by the Israeli government. This is clearly false as it has a history and a meaning preceding/divorced from Israel.

2) This demonstrates a failure/success point of terrorism: it got the attention the terrorists wanted and tangentially created a symbol of hate out of a simple piece of clothing. The color-coded kaffiyeh is not universally accepted to mean political things, but its terrorist use has made it seem that way. Again, it can and is worn harmlessly.

3) To address the main part of your question, you assume quite wrongly that by wearing a kaffiyeh my friend supports terrorism and that all political positions in Palestine must inherently claim terrorism. What she fights is the oppression of the entire Palestinian populace. I will not attempt to make a straw man out of this tangled mess, but to cut it short Israel has blood on its hands too. A quick study of Israeli actions will show repeated UN Human Rights Violations and human rights violations that almost all Americans would abhor. Her reasons for wearing a kaffiyeh are likely complex and I will not attempt to claim for her. However, she and many who support Palestine do NOT support terrorism.

 

[shoreman1782]

^Dude, I think you're making a lot of assumptions--the fact is, when you wear a keffiyeh/shemagh, people are going to interpret it in one way or another, and you will have little control over their impressions.

You can wear a lakers jersey for fashion and functional reasons, I guess, but most people are going to think you're a lakers fan.

 

[DeadDJ]

Actually it'd be the people you're talking about who are making the assumptions.

Perhaps I formatted the thing above wrong. Apply 1 and 2 to my friend who has both political reasons and personal history for reasons to wear it. I don't have a problem with her wearing it and I don't really have to be happy about people projecting their prejudice/stereotype upon her. I'm not trying to convert the US to the view that the kaffiyeh doesn't have political implications, I simply take umbrage as someone who is somewhat informed on the situation, to the broad assertion that all people wearing it support terrorism and that there is no other way to see it.

 

[Eason]

My girlfriend wears one sometime, tied around the neck, it looks really cute on her. I've worn it a few times, it looked very "cute" on me too, so it doesn't fit into my usual wardrobe. It's just not very versitile.

 

[RyJ Maduro]

Originally Posted by Kill the DJ

What she fights is the oppression of the entire Palestinian populace.

 

[DeadDJ]

Originally Posted by RyJ Maduro

You're right, they've had it good for too long.

She's not nearly so righteous about it, but she's in it for the human rights stuff, not the killing people part

 

[Arethusa]

You might as well give up. Anyone willing to call you a terrorist or a terrorist supporter because you wear a kaffiya is not a reasonable human being to be taken seriously. That globe and inarticulate idiots like Maduro are racist, vicious apologists for imperialism and state terror is simply a matter of course.

 

[somatoform]

This would be a decidely political example of the kaffiyeh:

On the other hand, the models I've seen wearing ones in MLB and Banana Republic ads are probably deriving some other sorts of connotations.

Whether it be a kaffiyeh, communist insignia, or a t-shirt with Che Guera's face, you can't control the various ways people will appropriate something and invest different meanings into it.

To make matters trickier, the Kaffiyeh probably didn't even start out as a political symbol even in Palestine, making the political meaning itself derivative from elsewhere.

Hence, in the end, all we're left with is a piece of cloth. But why that particular cloth? If not for politics, why did Banana Republic and MLB use it for ads? Out of all the coths they could have used, why that one? Ignorance? As a form of counter-resistance, a taking back the cloth, as it were? Highly unlikely.

Who knows...

 

[hi-val]

I saw one like this recently on ebay:

I really like the pink embroidering details but I'd like a better picture to see if it's actually pink or just tan reacting to the flash weirdly. Anyway, people wear them for a reason, but the reasons vary widely. I'd say it's foolish to wear one without assuming people will think you're pro-Palestinian, but one like what I just showed above seems a lot less recognizable, and thus, political.

 

[Arethusa]

Originally Posted by somatoform

Hence, in the end, all we're left with is a piece of cloth. But why that particular cloth? If not for politics, why did Banana Republic and MLB use it for ads? Out of all the coths they could have used, why that one? Ignorance? As a form of counter-resistance, a taking back the cloth, as it were? Highly unlikely. Who knows...
In the case of Banana Republic and most other mass marketers of this particular image, I think it's obviously the simple fact that it had become popular. Don't think you need to read more into it than that.

 

[globetrotter]

Originally Posted by Kill the DJ

, I simply take umbrage as someone who is somewhat informed on the situation, to the broad assertion that all people wearing it support terrorism and that there is no other way to see it.


this is a general problem with our society. in previous generations, we didn't give little children access to a platform to talk, we expected them to gain some knowledge, and then gave them a platform.

today, we give kids huge and unwarrented self confidence, we teach them to be lazy and then we give them the technology that allows them to share their idiot ideas with the world. hurray for progress.

yes, you are somewhat informed. about the time you understood that your mama wanted you to stop ******** in your diaper, I had already forgotten more about the middle east than you will ever have the industry and initiative to learn.

yes, there are several reasons to wear a kafiya


1. you are a person who lives in the palestine, jordan, syria or lebanon and works outdoors, say an agricultural laborer

2. you are a tourist in the above places, and have the taste of those japanese tourist who come to new york and get a cowboy hat

3. you support the organizations and political system that supports terror


the fact that you know a palestinian girl and she seems nice and yet wears a kaffiyah doesn't change the above.

the kaffiyah is a garment that hs been given a great deal of political weight. it is a simple of an idea - and that idea is tied in with people who support violence. if there was an organization that supported palestinian rights but didn't support terror, then maybe what you said would make sense.

 

[SoCal2NYC]

^oooh snaaaaaaaaaaaaaap!

 

[hayzum]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

yes, there are several reasons to wear a kafiya

1. you are a person who lives in the palestine, jordan, syria or lebanon and works outdoors, say an agricultural laborer

2. you are a tourist in the above places, and have the taste of those japanese tourist who come to new york and get a cowboy hat

3. you support the organizations and political system that supports terror


You were/are in Dubai, so do all the Arabs there wear a ghutra for the above mentioned reasons??

 

[globetrotter]

We are a clothing forum. Let's be specific. The various headgear of the gulf, north africa, the stans, south asia etc have nothing to do with the kaffiyeh.

But, a jordanian or a palestinian or an egyptian in dubai would never wear the same headgear that an emirati would. Likewise, someone from oman wears different headgear from somebody from saudi, who wears different headgear from somebody from abu dabi.

As I have said, on a previous thread about this same stupid subject - I wear a headgear from oman as a scarf. It is very nice with no political weight.

 

[DeadDJ]

Let's break this down slowly as essentially it's a summary of our previous exchange.
-First Post: Because the kaffiyeh is known symbol of terror groups, my friend and I are in a camp that support terrorist ideology. This is predicated somewhat upon the assertion in the second post also. False.

Originally Posted by globetrotter

of course she has no issue - it means that you are agreeing with her politics. the question is, do you feel that you are involved/invested enough to wear something that carries so much political weight? for the most part, wearing a kaffeya puts you in the campe that supports terror - you have to decide if you are comfortable with that.
-Second Post: Because there is no group which supports Palestinian nationalism without terror, my entire argument doesn't make sense. False.

1) I said in the first post that the kaffiyeh has a large amount of meaning without violence. My friend has cultural and political meanings for wearing it, of which there is much evidence, none of which involve violence. She is invested, I'm ok with that.

2) I argued with your first post because it went past simply saying that the kaffiyeh is a known symbol of terror groups thus we might be associated. You say, without equivocation then and now, that because of the association it means that we associate with, and support terror or are morons because nothing else is available ("puts you in a camp that supports terror," "if there was an organization that supported palestinian rights but didn't support terror, then maybe what you said would make sense"). You ask if I'm ok with supporting terror, I say that the terms of your dialogue are unacceptable and that evidence shows my objection is not unreasonable. Simply because some people have attached meaning to something that does not mean I have to attach that same meaning nor accept that all other people will perceive it that way. As the members on this board have shown, there are many who are aware of its broader implications of the kaffiyeh.

3) And onto your second: You can support an idea outside of an established group. Hell, you can even disagree with a group you're in if you want. Did you really overlook this? She wants peace and happiness for the people of Palestine and speaks out for it. She wears the kaffiyeh for specific reasons I can't speak to except I know that she doesn't support terrorism. She doesn't believe in terrorism for the movement. Many don't. I don't. I'd prefer that a UN resolution actually held relevance or US pressure would stop Israel from cutting off Palestinian means of living almost completely. I'd prefer Israel stop taking land without discussion, appeal, or aid to the displaced. I'm quite aware this is not simple, a balance of safety and rights, centuries of history that you've learned and forgotten. However, because you say so we implicitly agree with the entire doctrine of some terrorist group? That's what happens when you learn logic from GW Bush.

Can I get an outside opinion on this one? Is what I'm saying really that hard to understand?