Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II

[cdmoore1855]

You guys are too critical, sure they could have been aligned a little better and are not perfect but do you really think anyone in the real world is going to notice

 

[Son Of Saphir]



You guys are too critical, sure they could have been aligned a little better and are not perfect but do you really think anyone in the real world is going to notice

You notice.

could have been aligned a little better

No.
could have been aligned much better.
No excuse for bad clicking,
it not good for Cleverly to send it out like that.

 

[HORNS]



Not really.

Alligators and crocodiles seem come in two variations...because they are bilaterally symmetrical, the belly tiles are usually arranged on either side of a clear "dividing" line that runs down the center of the belly. Sometimes that line will run unbroken from the throat to the anal vent. The left shoe is an example and has that line all the way to the toe.
Other times the line will split and you'll get an extra tile or two right where the line would ordinarily be. The right shoe is one of those.
Neither variation is superior to the other in terms of quality or even aesthetics. But they are different.
There are several ways to cut alligator. You can even cut it on "on the bias" such that square tiles (from prime leather) display on the lateral side of the shoe while small round tiles display on the medial side. No harm, no foul. We still need to match skins but we can be a little more casual.
But when the skin is cut to display the tiles running straight across the vamp then matching the skins becomes paramount. Simply because that dividing line becomes a "visual reference" that the eye is immediately drawn to.
When a maker orders from a dealer he needs to specify matched skins...and one of the criteria that must be given weight is the the way in which the tiles are laid out.
Crocodile or alligator skins come from living animals and each skin is unique so a perfect match is not possible but matching skins means paying attention to tile size, tile shape and tile location. All these criteria are important.
Two out of three isn't a match, IMO
What's more, the dividing line on the left shoe is centered; on the right it runs off to the lateral side.
If it's a match it's a careless match.

Stupid, eagle-eyed DWF.

Seriously though, you once again elevated my perception and critical "eye" when looking at shoes. Thanks.



"anal vent" . . . . phewwwsshhhh!!!!! . . . . right?

 

[HORNS]



What's more, the dividing line on the left shoe is centered; on the right it runs off to the lateral side.
If it's a match it's a careless match.

I'd say that the lines perpendicular to the dividing line, which you say is off and running towards the lateral side, are very well-matched to the other shoe and since there are a multitude of those lines and they establish more of the grid pattern than the dividing line that this matching up is more important. To me. So, if the maker made the effort to make the line run down the center then I'd be afraid that those other lines would be off and the shoes would be even more asymmetrical than what they are now.

Also, when you're referring to the matching of the leather in the arch area do you thing they should have made the lines match up, like a window pane pattern on a jacket?

 

[DWFII]



You guys are too critical, sure they could have been aligned a little better and are not perfect but do you really think anyone in the real world is going to notice

You've got a point there although not one that carries much weight when we start talking about high-end shoes....or high-end anything.

And none of this should make you enjoy them less. That said, I am sorry to have dissed anyone's personal shoes. I try not to do that but sometimes the conversation just takes a turn, so to speak. Unbridled admiration is fine when it is deserved but not so much when it is not.

Hats off to you for posting the photos and opening them up for criticism.

 

[HORNS]

Still, it should be extremely easy to create genetically identical crocodiles.

Who's with me?

 

[bengal-stripe]



Many bad part,
but most bad part in circle.
No good maker should do that.
Very very bad.

Me send them back.
Clicker fail at job,
why he so bad?

You haven't understood the pattern at all.

This is a whole-cut crocodile, there is only one seam on the medial side (inside), There is no seam on the outside and (although I cannot see it) I presume very strongly, there is no heel seam. The whole single piece of leather wraps around like an orange- or apple peel. This is a highly sophisticated pattern, that leather piece is almost two feet long. You can align the pattern on the toe (as here) or you can align it on the vamp seam (then the toe will get out of sync). After all you are dealing with a natural hide from two different animals.For absolute mirror images you will need to emboss the leather. (Even then, there might be differences if the owner's feet are not absolutely identical).

This is absolute bravura clicking!!!

 

[cdmoore1855]

You are correct, it is a whole cut wrapped around, there is a seam at the back (but not 2 separate skins joined)

 

[DWFII]



I'd say that the lines perpendicular to the dividing line, which you say is off and running towards the lateral side, are very well-matched to the other shoe and since there are a multitude of those lines and they establish more of the grid pattern than the dividing line that this matching up is more important. To me. So, if the maker made the effort to make the line run down the center then I'd be afraid that those other lines would be off and the shoes would be even more asymmetrical than what they are now.
Also, when you're referring to the matching of the leather in the arch area do you thing they should have made the lines match up, like a window pane pattern on a jacket?

The vamps were cut close to the same position on their respective skins. Which simply underscores the mismatch of the skins. And that was my original point to you. The skins are not matched very well. I have cut a lot of alligator in my time and I have made the same mistake...years and years ago, but I have done.

We don't know how the interstitial lines would have been affected if the skins had been matched for size and tile location. And cut properly. Two skins roughly the same width across the belly and with similar centerlines might have resulted in a very good match. But again, this is the maker's responsibility--it's what he, presumably, gets paid for.

As for the insteps (I frankly don't know what to call that piece) look more closely (especially if you wish to train your eye). The interstitial lines start low in the medial corner on the right shoe and higher up on the other, and run off the top of the instep at one elevation/point on the left shoe and at another on the right. This isn't even a matter of matching skins, this is a matter of the maker not taking the time to cut with care, respect, diligence. A moment in time...only.

 

[Son Of Saphir]



This is a whole-cut crocodile,

Ah yes,
now me see it.
That change everything.
Good eye.

 

[Son Of Saphir]



You've got a point there although not one that carries much weight when we start talking about high-end shoes....or high-end anything.
And none of this should make you enjoy them less. That said, I am sorry to have dissed anyone's personal shoes. I try not to do that but sometimes the conversation just takes a turn, so to speak. Unbridled admiration is fine when it is deserved but not so much when it is not.
Hats off to you for posting the photos and opening them up for criticism.

Me not like to critic shoe on forum,
but it good to show thing to help develop people eye here.
lt good for learning and develop eye for detail.
Me give CDMoore shoe bad time,
but CDMoore still talk to me good,
he not hate me yet.
He good player.

 

[DWFII]



You haven't understood the pattern at all.

This is a whole-cut crocodile, there is only one seam on the medial side (inside), There is no seam on the outside and (although I cannot see it) I presume very strongly, there is no heel seam. The whole single piece of leather wraps around like an orange- or apple peel. This is a highly sophisticated pattern, that leather piece is almost two feet long. You can align the pattern on the toe (as here) or you can align it on the vamp seam (then the toe will get out of sync). After all you are dealing with a natural hide from two different animals.For absolute mirror images you will need to emboss the leather. (Even then, there might be differences if the owner's feet are not absolutely identical).
This is absolute bravura clicking!!!

Hmmm.....very good point. I also missed that aspect (so much for my eye).

Still in all, the skins didn't match to begin with. My original remarks were focused on the matching of the skins. We have now slipped into talking about clicking (probably partially my fault, that) and no harm, no foul.

I grant the point about the difficulty of cutting and lasting this pattern.

But if, as you say "[COLOR=0000FF]You can align the pattern on the toe (as here) or you can align it on the vamp seam (then the toe will get out of sync). [/COLOR]", then why didn't the maker align the toe, at least? Because regardless the skins weren't matched, the toes are not aligned. The centerline twists off center on the right shoe while it is dead center on the left.

And as I pointed out in a previous post, alligator and crocodile come from individual, idiosyncratic animals. No two skins will be perfectly identical. All the more reason for the maker to take the time to match skins as well as possible.

 

[DWFII]



You are correct, it is a whole cut wrapped around, there is a seam at the back (but not 2 separate skins joined)

Is there a photo of the back seam? If there is a full back seam the shoes are not "whole cut" at all.

 

[cdmoore1855]

heel pics coming shortly

As far as I can see its a whole cut

 

[cdmoore1855]

By cdmoore1855 at 2012-02-24

By cdmoore1855 at 2012-02-24