Random Food Questions Thread

[Steve Plotnicki]

i'm hhonestly quite divided on the question. on the one hand, i agree with matt that it is symptomatic of the whole wave of fragile flower chefs whose creations are so exquisite that they must not be trifled with. on the other, i have seen way too many invented food "allergies" that merely seem to be an excuse for a diner insisting on special service (and i'm saying that knowing full well that there are indeed quite serious food allergies -- my daughter was allergic to dairy, peanuts and eggs until she turned about 16; that's not what i'm talking about). I've even seen customers dby enough to come in and insist on mixing and matching ingredients from different menu items (can i have the carrots from the lamb and the lentils from the salmon and a piece of wagyu on top of that?).
in the end, i guess i come down on the side of free enterprise. if a restaurant is hospitable enough to humor these requests (or desperate enough for business), more power to them. but I don't think the desire to have a Father's Office burger served exactly the way you want it is an inalienable human right. If you don't like it, you certainly have the freedom to go elsewhere.

I just find this argument to be an abstraction. It has nothing to do with the inalienable rights of the diner, nor does it have to do with free enterprise. It only has to do with one thing: Whether you care if your customers are happy or not. . Sang Yoon should simply say "I don't care if my customers are unhappy" instead of offering silly rationales for a policy that is completely arbitrary

This is such a silly argument. If someone wanted to change a Picasso because they didn't like one of the colors used in the painting, a chorus of people would demand that the painting not be changed in the name of art. But not a single person would complain if they left the blue cheese off of someone else's burgers. In fact, other than Sang Yoon, you couldn't find a single person who would claim that his burger is worthy of being treated as art.

 

[foodguy]



I just find this argument to be an abstraction. It has nothing to do with the inalienable rights of the diner, nor does it have to do with free enterprise. It only has to do with one thing: Whether you care if your customers are happy or not. . Sang Yoon should simply say "I don't care if my customers are unhappy" instead of offering silly rationales for a policy that is completely arbitrary

This is such a silly argument. If someone wanted to change a Picasso because they didn't like one of the color used in the painting, a chorus of people would demand that the painting not be changed in the name of art. But not a single person would complain if they left itthe blue cheese off of someone else's burgers. In fact, other than Sang Yoon, you couldn't find a single person who would claim that his burger is worthy of being treated as art.

this does not surprise me.

 

[mordecai]



This is such a silly argument. If someone wanted to change a Picasso because they didn't like one of the color used in the painting, a chorus of people would demand that the painting not be changed in the name of art.

This is a silly comparison. If Picasso himself, or if any artist decided to alter a piece they were going to make there would be nobody complaining. Now, if someone commissioned a portrait and he decided they should have a portrait of him instead, they would be free to call out the absurdity and take their money elsewhere. That is what foodguy is saying.
Frankly, I think anyone paying for a Picasso deserves whatever they get, so I'm not sure where I stand in this range of comparison.

 

[Steve Plotnicki]

Really? If Picasso was alive and he was going to make a change to Guernica you don't think there would be a public outcry?

Look the point I am trying to make is that the artist is not in a position to call his work art. It takes the public agreeing with him. And while almost everyone would agree that what Picasso made is art, nobody thinks that a cheese burger is art. In fact most of the arguments that people make to defend Sang Yoon are Libertarian or free enterprise arguments. Nobody ever offers an argument that is based on aesthetics.

If you were at the French Laundry and you wanted Oysters & Pearls and you told your captain that you were allergic to oysters, the kitchen would do their best to modify the dish (like serving it with shrimp or lobster) so you can still enjoy it. The reason they are willing to do that is because they realize that the odd customer wanting a modification doesn't dilute the value of their art. So if Thomas Keller doesn't think his art is being diluted by making a modification to what is probably the most important dish ever created by an American chef, why can't Sang Yoon modify a cheeseburger by leaving the cheese off for someone who keeps kosher at home? One reason and one reason only. He simply doesn't want to.

 

[Piobaire]

Some excellent posts in the last two pages. Just excellent. Steve, I hope you stick around.

This goes exactly to why I have a few local spots that I patronize almost exclusively. The staff, from FOH to chef, all make the experience not only about us but a personalized experience about us. As a customer, the fact a somm will text me about a wine he just got in, or a chef will contact me because he's playing with my favorite ingredient that day (foie!), or the kitchen makes this calamari appy with shrimp instead for me as they know I love it...that's the dialogues, the true relationships that make a guy feel good about patronizing the place. While as Matt said it is about that most basic of human needs, food, it is also about another basic human need, namely that we are social animals and dining is best as a social event.

 

[mordecai]



Really? If Picasso was alive and he was going to make a change to Guernica you don't think there would be a public outcry?

This also is not representative of the point you are trying to make, but I won't press it further.

nobody thinks that a cheese burger is art.

 

[Steve Plotnicki]

Mordecai do you consider that art because of the visual, or is there some aspect of it from a culinary perspective which makes you offer it as art? Because it looks great, but it might taste like crap.

 

[mordecai]



Mordecai do you consider that art because of the visual, or is there some aspect of it from a culinary perspective which makes you offer it as art? Because it looks great, but it might taste like crap.

Considering it is a very famous Claes Oldenburg sculpture I doubt I will get to find out. Those MoMA guards are pretty quick on their feet.

 

[foodguy]



So if Thomas Keller doesn't think his art is being diluted by making a modification to what is probably the most important dish ever created by an American chef, why can't Sang Yoon modify a cheeseburger by leaving the cheese off for someone who keeps kosher at home? One reason and one reason only. He simply doesn't want to.

exactly. and he is a business owner and has the right to make that decision. if his customers dislike it, they are free to go elsewhere.
look, i can pretty much guarantee you that i know how thomas keller operates at least as well as anyone on this board. and i don't think there's anybody who has more respect for him than I do, not least because of his willingness to go to great lengths to make his customers happy. that is entirely admirable. but should it be a requirement for any restaurant owner? that seems absurd.

 

[Steve Plotnicki]

The issue isn't whether it should be a requirement. (although I think it should be within reason.) The issue is chefs being full of crap as to why they don't want to do it.

 

[Douglas]



Considering it is a very famous Claes Oldenburg sculpture I doubt I will get to find out. Those MoMA guards are pretty quick on their feet.

rarely, ever so rarely, i really do laugh out loud while reading teh esteemed forvm.

 

[foodguy]

and sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't. and sometimes customers are full of crap for making the requests. if you're at TFL and you decide you want oysters and pearls without the oysters, sure TK might fix it for you; but you'd be no better than Sang Yoon refusing to put cheese on his burger. my point is that substitutions should only be requested when absolutely necessary (within reasonable parameters). doing it whimsically because you think you might like it better is just obnoxious. why would you go to TFL and order oysters and pearls if you didn't want that dish?

 

[Douglas]

what if i want my chicken with nothing with something?

 

[foodguy]

depends if that's the sauce or the side.

 

[Piobaire]

Considering it is a very famous Claes Oldenburg sculpture I doubt I will get to find out. Those MoMA guards are pretty quick on their feet.

rarely, ever so rarely, i really do laugh out loud while reading teh esteemed forvm.

Indeed, that was chuckle worthy.