Proper Cloth - Official Affiliate Thread

[razl]



Do you normally wear the fused? Just curious about your collar collapse issue

Yes, at least all the shirts I'm discussing here - the 2 PC shirts and the comparison ones - all have fused collars.

 

[novaeagle]

Yes, at least all the shirts I'm discussing here - the 2 PC shirts and the comparison ones - all have fused collars.

Interesting. I was looking at getting a couple of the presidential spread shirts, but I usually go tieless, so this is relevant to me.

 

[razl]



Interesting. I was looking at getting a couple of the presidential spread shirts, but I usually go tieless, so this is relevant to me.

Same here, I'm 95% tie-less.

However, it seems lots of others are happy and don't share my problems with PC collars sans-tie so, like I said, maybe it's me. That's why I'm hoping somebody with a similar experience can say "Yep - that fixed it!".

 

[novaeagle]

Same here, I'm 95% tie-less.

However, it seems lots of others are happy and don't share my problems with PC collars sans-tie so, like I said, maybe it's me. That's why I'm hoping somebody with a similar experience can say "Yep - that fixed it!".

Have you considered having a normal button placement but undoing two buttons? This typically allows the collar to stand up more, but the second button being undone doesn't cause your chest to "poke out." Essentially it looks the same as only undoing one button but with the added benefit of a better standing collar. I've read several articles on the matter, and looked up a few after your post as well. Maybe try that and see if it alleviates the issue at all?

 

[venividivicibj]

Maybe you need te stiff option?

 

[razl]



Have you considered having a normal button placement but undoing two buttons? This typically allows the collar to stand up more, but the second button being undone doesn't cause your chest to "poke out." Essentially it looks the same as only undoing one button but with the added benefit of a better standing collar. I've read several articles on the matter, and looked up a few after your post as well. Maybe try that and see if it alleviates the issue at all?

Yes, one of my PC shirts has the normal placement but it doesn't seem to make a difference regarding whether the collar collapses or not; whether I have 1 or two buttons open (and I can't really do two because of my man fur...) And, just so we're covering all bases, the shirts I compared them to have approximately the same placement with an eyeball measurement.

Maybe you need te stiff option?

That's exactly what I was originally asking about, but got a bit lost conversation's progress...

 

[Andrew Ryan]

Can someone who has tried the new "stiff collar" option confirm whether it prevents collar collapse? I have gotten 2 PC shirts - one with a Roma and one with a Presidential - and both suffer from the collar collapsing to full flat under a jacket almost immediately when wearing.

I should note that one shirt has the original buttoning height while the second has the lower option, but both behave the same. Also, other shirts - Barba, Maz, Borrelli, etc. - don't exhibit this behavior when worn with the same jackets.

Honestly, it's what has stopped me dead in my tracks from buying any more. And the two that I do have are have seen rotation drop to null because of it.

Not trying to be overly critical, I'm willing to accept that maybe the PC construction just doesn't work for me; but I'm hoping that's not the case and willing to try again if I get some hope that it's worth rolling the dice.

No experience with the 'stiff' collars, but I have one thing to say - Milano II collar. Looks really bad without a jacket (I use button downs and, admittedly, some MII's with magnetic collar stays at times when not wearing one, but I'm almost always in a jacket); looks fantastic with a jacket and is the only one out of any of the collars I've tried (and I've tried a hefty amount of them, including the two you mention) that has enough length in the collar points and at the right angle to stand up perfectly straight.

This was a huge issue for me as well, and I didn't begin fully stocking up on PC shirts until I discovered the wonders of that collar... also, FWIW, I suggest you go with the lowered 0.5" top button with that collar, and not unbutton two buttons - the collar is quite high to begin with, and thus gives the illusion that more neck/chest is shown despite it not really being so, compared to a shorter collar at the same buttoning point.

Anyhow, had the exact same issue, bugged the hell out of me, and the MII solved it, so, hey, might be worth a shot.

 

[venividivicibj]

That's exactly what I was originally asking about, but got a bit lost conversation's progress...

yeah, I think a still collar band (not the collar itself) would have a big effect on that.

 

[lupin23rd]

Thanks for the feedback novaeagle and AriG! Good to know I'm on the right track, will look at the sleeves and cuffs for my next order.

A few comments:

- I've been using the "full" armhole as opposed to the "tailored". I don't like it to be too tight in that area so thought that would be the better option for me.
- I've been told my shoulders are sloped when being measured for previous MTM jackets, so that's already incorporated.
- I don't think the chest feels too tight, I'd actually been thinking it might be too big a little bit and maybe the arm was pushing excess chest fabric back. But that's another area I'd rather be a little looser on.

 

[AriG]

Ok, than that slope adjustment seems to work for you! As for the full armpit, that's fine, but you will naturally see more lines with arms down as opposed to a more restricted range of movement with the tailored fit (because of the attachment angle). If you feel comfortable right now, I'd leave it as is. Chest certainly looks fine from the pictures.

 

[surefire1017]

I wanted to get any input for improvement. Only thing I could think of is possibly taking off .5 in the chest and waist and possibly increase shoulder slope.

 

[Voight-Kampff]

I got my first PC shirt not long ago. So far, I love the collar (Soft Roma Cutaway), the website and the cloth selection. But I was really disappointed by the fit!

Even after 4 washes, the midsection is the widest of any shirts I own despite having gone for the super slim fit. There's also something wrong with the sleeves. I'm not quite sure what I should do.

Possible alterations:
-Taking in waist by a couple of inches. Not sure exactly by how much
-Going for the tailored armpit.
-Shortening the sleeves by half an inch or the shoulders by half an inch on each side.

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[novaeagle]

It's impossible to say how much, given that we have no frame of reference, however, a couple points.

1. "super slim fit" means nothing. Their super slim fit is insanely slim. I had to go for a "tweener" in the body between super slim and slim for my perfect fit. Given my experiences (and a lot of others), I'm going to fall on occam's razor and say you probably measured badly.
2. Sleeve length is fine. Yoke could probably come in, if you want to, but bear in mind this will make the armpit feel tighter (if you're not used to that it may be annoying). It does NOT affect the sleeve length.
3. Tailored arm and armhole probably, yeah.
4. French cuffs, by their nature, will make the forearm less slim.
5. Your chest width is probably fine.
6. Waist could definitely come in, although I'm not sure how much. For reference, I add 4" to my chest and waist to get a slim, not overly tight fit (33" / 2 = 16.5" + 2" = 18.5" waist measurement). My body fluctuates given my workout routine, so often this is slim and often this is somewhat loose. Just depends on how much I'm eating / muscle I have.
7. Just because the collar is soft doesn't mean you shouldn't use the collar stays. On that note, the collar appears too large for you, it's sliding down your neck. This, combined with the lack of stays in the collar, gives a sloppy appearance.

 

[AriG]

I mean did you use body measurements for this? Then it's no surprise it doesn't fit, never do that. Rather use smart sizes or build your measurements from scratch. Just one thing: Don't shorten the sleeves, if anything, they're too short (especially for a dress shirt).

 

[Vasco]

In addition to the above, the front collar band height looks unusually short in the photos. Perhaps it's as as result of the camera angle but hard to tell.